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Double vision (ghosting) at night through windshield?

Discussion in 'Model X: Interior & Exterior' started by rmiggins, Jan 19, 2016.

  1. Mark Z

    Mark Z Active Member

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    #61 Mark Z, Apr 9, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2016
    My progressive prescription eyeglasses give some double vision outside the sharpest zone, so I would have blamed it on the eyeglasses.

    When the Model X returns from it's week long vacation at the Service Center getting a tan in the parking lot, I will have to check it out with my sharpest long distance eyeglasses.

    I hope the younger drivers don't get too upset over this. Just wait until you reach your 60's! The vision artifacts start occurring with the slightest start of cataracts and the shrinking of the vitreous humour pulling at the cornea. If you ever see flashes of light in the dark, thousands of cells in your vision or ink like streams or a dark curtain effect, get to a retina specialist that day! Don't wait, a retina tear may cause blindness if ignored. Laser can be use to quickly repair the damage. A local hospital ER can put you in touch with a retina specialist 24/7.
     
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  2. thegruf

    thegruf Active Member

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    Tesla not the only manufacturer to have this problem, I had the same issue on an AMG MB previously.
    I was told by MB there is nothing can be done as the front glass is laminated so you can get some diffraction between the laminate layers which causes the double image of bright especially led lights
     
  3. daroon

    daroon Member

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    I have a 2012 Prius. I took it out last night to see if the problem existed. Sure enough, just like the pictures above, stop lights and other sharp lights created a perfect pattern of triple off in the distance. I had never noticed. Furthermore, my wife, who has perfect vision, saw it too and commented on how interesting it was that she hadn't noticed it before.

    I do not think this is an issue that will be solved by swapping your windshield. I think it's the product of the slope, and seeing through the thickness of the layers of glass. My guess is most new, big, and highly sloped (aerodynamic) windshields will have this issue.
     
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  4. ohmman

    ohmman Maximum Plaid Member

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    Exactly. Post 42 above explained this pretty well. Also, as I mentioned, you can search "double vision windshield" or "ghosting windshield" or "triple vision windshield" on Google and find just about every single manufacturer listed in their respective forums.

    It is entirely possible that the sharp slope of the windshield, as you note above, separates the artifacts by a larger degree than in some windshields. This might make it stand out more to people with excellent vision. I'll be interested to see if there is real resolution on this, because I do feel like it's physics at work.
     
  5. FA1820

    FA1820 Member

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    When I drive at night on a busy two way street, I cannot tell how many cars are approaching on the other side of the road. I cannot notice any bike or motorcycle unless they are very close to me, nearly passing on the other side. All cars look like a cluster of many, many, many small blurry light sources on the other side that makes it really hard for my eyes/brain to distinguish how many of them are approaching. Image if you a re trying to make a left turn on green light. It is hard to believe that many of you find this whole effect hard to notice.
     
  6. vandacca

    vandacca ReActive Member

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    If Steve Jobs were still alive today, I'm sure Apple would have bought Tesla by now and put an end to all this nonsense. You're clearly looking through it wrong.o_O
     
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  7. lloyds

    lloyds Active Member

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    Same issue here. Will be contacting tesla soon.
     
  8. darthvdr

    darthvdr Member

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    My wife noticed it first and it is giving her a headached when driving at night. Fortunately we do not go out much after dark. This is a problem I hope Tesla addresses immediately
     
  9. Roentgen

    Roentgen Member

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    Hate to ask again, but anyone who has tinted their windshield: have you noticed this problem get better? Worse? No change?
     
  10. pvogel

    pvogel Member

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    I've seen this issue with just about every recent car that has a raked front windshield. My 2012 Prius v had it to a slightly lesser degree, the rental car I had last week had it pretty severely (noticeable even in the daytime at traffic lights), the X has it as well. I think this is fundamentally a result of layered glass and light passing through media with different refractive indices.
     
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  11. Roentgen

    Roentgen Member

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    I'll agree that now that I've seen it, I look for it in every other car I sit in, and none are "perfect." Just to a lesser degree. I personally don't think it's particularly distracting in my X, although I cannot now unsee, and I can't help but look for it everywhere I go.

    And related to my above question from what little I remember of physics, adding a windshield tint could potentially make it WORSE, right? As I'd be adding an additional layer to the windshield, and possibly increasing the degree of refraction. (Unless of course, the tint somehow refracts in the opposite direction to offset - but is that even physically possible? I doubt it.)
     
  12. Jeff McClure

    Jeff McClure Member

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    I got a strip of tint from a shop and applied it myself; it did not resolve the issue. I could still see the double vision.
     
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  13. Roentgen

    Roentgen Member

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    Any worse? Same? I've got a tint appointment this Friday. As I don't find it too troublesome, I may not bother with replacement if the option ever arises. If it's worse, I'll avoid tinting the front windshield.

    As it is, I think I'm more concerned about heat transmission through the glass here in SoCal.
     
  14. Jeff McClure

    Jeff McClure Member

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    It did not make a significant difference...maybe a 10% reduction.

    What are you looking at for tint? I hear a lot of people talking about PhotoSync and I know 3M has some high end products.
     
  15. Jeff McClure

    Jeff McClure Member

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    I noticed that the bottom six inches or so does not have the double vision problem, and the problem ends with the tinting begins at the top. Unfortunately the bottom six inches of the windshield is not the part that I normally look through. However, this leads me to believe that it is not a design issue, but a manufacturing issue. The lower six inches of the windshield has pretty much the same angle as the rest of the windshield.
     
  16. Roentgen

    Roentgen Member

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    Tru dat.

    I'm going with Photosync. I've read some great reviews elsewhere on this forum. Talking to the tint guy, he says it's the best on the market in terms of IR and total heat blocking, close to 20% better than Huper Optik, which I think used to be the best tint (if you believe the numbers the respective companies advertise). I have Huper Optik on my commuter car, and it is really clear and works great. I rationalize the upgrade as an overall increase in efficiency of the Model X (less internal heat = less AC = more mileage).

    Of note: Photosync is a thicker tint, and is harder to install. In fact, although the guy says the risk is small, I have to sign a waiver for possible front windshield cracking as they say they've heard of some other shops having problems with the Xs giant curved windshield.
     
  17. pvogel

    pvogel Member

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    Yes, the bottom 6" is the same angle, but the position relative to sources of light that would create the problem is significantly different. The hood of the car prevents light from below and lights from above (i.e. a traffic light) are hitting at a different angle relative to your eyes than higher up on the windshield. There are several variables in effect:

    Angle of the light relative to the angle of the windshield.
    Angle of the light's incidence on the windshield relative to the position of your eye
    Source of the refraction/reflection artifact -- is it pure refraction or is part of it a reflection as the light transits between layers of the glass?
     
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  18. Jeff McClure

    Jeff McClure Member

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    I've controlled for the angle of refraction in my tests. I can't do anything about the hood, but I don't think the hood is a factor.
     
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  19. electricity

    electricity Member

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    checked last night on my cayenne. Same double ghost like things on lights. never looked for before so never noticed but they are there.
     
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  20. FA1820

    FA1820 Member

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    Jeff,
    Did the windshield replacement improve the double/triple vision by 10% or tinting process? I thought they had offered to get a new windsheild to you! I wonder if they replaced it whether it was checked to see if it had the same issue or not.

    Incidentally, I came across a Tesla owned modelX at a super charger. I thought it was a "beat-up" demo model at first and since I didn't recall the double vision issue during "meet / drive your model X event", I approached him to ask if he had noticed it. Turned out he was a test engineer, driving an "older" factory owned model X that was being tested for its battery. I spoke to him about the double vision issue and showed him the pictures I had taken at night. He was surprised by these pictures. He suggested that I take the car to a SC and report the issue immediately! He had been testing/driving these cars for over 1.5 years with no refraction/reflection issues that some of us are reporting. OTOH, his test cars most likely had older windshield glasses (ver 1.x) or so.
     
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