Edmunds.com test car failure

[hsctiger93]

I've just about the same issues with my P2310.
- 12v died
- charge port stopped opening
- door handle stopped working
- pano roof noise/creaking
- side window triangle bar thing leaking air at highway speeds (twice, need to take it in again)
- replaced inverter
- replaced wheel hub thing (loud groaning noise while driving, not the same as lone droning at freeway speed, that was the inverter)
- pano roof leaving slime trails from too much goop/sealant
- loose visor clip caused it to be very noisy/rattle
- Missing/broken clip caused front fascia to pop out an inch or so

And that's just what I can recall off the top of my head...

I love my Model S, but I wouldn't remotely call it a high quality or reliable car at this stage in Tesla's life cycle. I've had more trouble with it in 1 year than 20 years of other cars.

It's a shame these things happened to you but I agree with other posters. I'd say it's the price paid as an early adopter. You own the 2,310th sedan ever built by a car company- very rarified air! The thing you want- and I hope you got- is complete support from TMC on all these repairs.

I had an Audi A4 Quattro that I bought brand new. In 18 months it had:
-Dead starter in first week
-Turbo went out in 6 months
-Electrics went bad
-Both headlamps blew
-Cruise control went out
-Dead heads-up display
-Alignment issues causing ridiculous tire wear they could never resolve

At 30,000 miles I asked Audi to extend my factory warranty. Their response: No. Their verbatim quote in their letter stated: "Your experience with Audi is no different than other Audi owners."

I sold that car 1 week later and will never put a dollar towards that company ever again.

The reason I will put a deposit on a Model S is because everything I read shows how Tesla stands behind its product. Even if my VIN is in the 30k or 40k range (I don't know what it's up to), it's still a very low number. I do expect some issues as an early-mass purchaser. But I also expect TMC to support me with these issues.

 

[SeattleSid]

Threw a rod on a Hillman Minx while driving to CA for a wedding. My '65 Mustang was stolen and, improbably, recovered because it died in the middle of an intersection. My Acura stopped dead in the middle lane of a busy three lane road, due to an electrical failure of some sort; a bunch of high school kids stopped traffic and pushed me off to the side. My wife's '71 BMW 1600 was disabled by a failed water pump on a main road nearby. My Ford Bronco lost all braking ability (except the emergency brake) heading to Seattle one day. Got my only speeding ticket in the last 45 years because the cruise control on my Peugeot (I know, I know) went haywire. Happily, we've had AAA for forty years or so; despite several tows, probably they're still ahead, membership fee-wise.

 

[cwerdna]

It's a shame these things happened to you but I agree with other posters. I'd say it's the price paid as an early adopter. You own the 2,310th sedan ever built by a car company- very rarified air! The thing you want- and I hope you got- is complete support from TMC on all these repairs.

I had an Audi A4 Quattro that I bought brand new. In 18 months it had:
-Dead starter in first week
-Turbo went out in 6 months
-Electrics went bad
-Both headlamps blew
-Cruise control went out
-Dead heads-up display
-Alignment issues causing ridiculous tire wear they could never resolve

At 30,000 miles I asked Audi to extend my factory warranty. Their response: No. Their verbatim quote in their letter stated: "Your experience with Audi is no different than other Audi owners."

I sold that car 1 week later and will never put a dollar towards that company ever again.

Unfortunately, that's what you get when you buy Audi or any VAG products. They've never been known for particularly good reliability. Their reliability ratings in Consumer Reports over the years tend to be mostly average or below average.

Keep in mind VAG has other brands too: Volkswagen Group Brands and Products.

Edmunds posted this update:
Is the Third Drive Unit the Charm? - 2013 Tesla Model S Long-Term Road Test

It appears the tweets at Edmunds Model S Long-Term Test - Page 12 are referring to the same thing as the OP.

 

[Gizmotoy]

Edmunds posted this update:
Is the Third Drive Unit the Charm? - 2013 Tesla Model S Long-Term Road Test

From the article:

After the high-voltage battery pack was replaced, the Model S needed a four-wheel alignment. That's because the subframe was removed to extract the battery.

Seems odd. Will battery swap stations, should they ever appear, need to do alignments? Presumably they'd be used on long trips, where the risk of tire damage from improper alignment is highest.

 

[Stoneymonster]

From the article:


Seems odd. Will battery swap stations, should they ever appear, need to do alignments? Presumably they'd be used on long trips, where the risk of tire damage from improper alignment is highest.

I'll bet that's a misstatement and has more to do with the drive unit replacement, not the battery.

 

[Musterion]

Looks like they made the common violation of the towing guidelines stating not to loop tow straps through the wheels.

 

[ckessel]

It's a shame these things happened to you but I agree with other posters. I'd say it's the price paid as an early adopter.

Yea, so I keep hearing. I thought the Roadster and Sig folks were early adopters. If I'd known what I was getting, I'd have waited another few months. I would have gotten a B pack then too.

 

[qwk]

From the article:


Seems odd. Will battery swap stations, should they ever appear, need to do alignments? Presumably they'd be used on long trips, where the risk of tire damage from improper alignment is highest.

The Model S doesn't need an alignment after a battery swap, only after a drive unit swap.

 

[Gizmotoy]

I'll bet that's a misstatement and has more to do with the drive unit replacement, not the battery.

The Model S doesn't need an alignment after a battery swap, only after a drive unit swap.

Makes more sense, just an error in the article, then.

 

[actualsize]

Yes, the alignment was necessary because of the power unit swap, not the battery swap. That was incorrectly stated, though I'm not sure if the source of the error was a misstatement by the service adviser or the author's misunderstanding that wasn't caught in the edit phase. The service ticket is written in such a way that the alignment notation comes just after the one for the high voltage battery replacement, implying a cause-and-effect relationship that isn't really there.

As someone else said, the subframe has to be dropped to get at the power unit (for the second time in just over three months, it must be said.) And while that was the primary reason for the wheel alignment, it wasn't the only item on the list that would have triggered the need for an alignment. There were also two suspension related factory bulletins to take care of: one called for the addition of front lower control arm washers and new nuts and another led to the installation of new rear camber correction bolts.

We're not sure why they needed to replace the main 85 kWh high voltage battery and the 12-volt battery, the latter for the second time. I'm trying to get some feedback on that, but so far I'm treading water on that front. It's possible they don't know yet themselves, and that all the parts were recovered so they could study them as a unit.

Despite the extensive and eyebrow-raising work that was done the car, it was turned around remarkably quickly -- they had it one full day and we got it back first thing the next morning. It's very hard to complain about the modular way in which this car is serviced -- except, of course, for the not-small fact that the work was necessary in the first place. It's kind of like saying "great save!" when an F1 or NASCAR driver gets all crossed-up and recovers. We tend to overlook the fact that he screwed up to get sideways in the first place.

Crossing my fingers we don't have any more of these events. I really do love this car in spite of it all, but one can only put up with so much.

Dan

 

[apacheguy]

We're not sure why they needed to replace the main 85 kWh high voltage battery and the 12-volt battery, the latter for the second time. I'm trying to get some feedback on that, but so far I'm treading water on that front. It's possible they don't know yet themselves, and that all the parts were recovered so they could study them as a unit.

It has become quite common for Tesla to replace the HV pack after experiences such as your own. Out of curiosity, what are the serial and part numbers of the new pack?

 

[GDH]

I've just about the same issues with my P2310.
- 12v died
- charge port stopped opening
- door handle stopped working
- pano roof noise/creaking
- side window triangle bar thing leaking air at highway speeds (twice, need to take it in again)
- replaced inverter
- replaced wheel hub thing (loud groaning noise while driving, not the same as lone droning at freeway speed, that was the inverter)
- pano roof leaving slime trails from too much goop/sealant
- loose visor clip caused it to be very noisy/rattle
- Missing/broken clip caused front fascia to pop out an inch or so

And that's just what I can recall off the top of my head....

WOW!

 

[woof]

Despite the extensive and eyebrow-raising work that was done the car, it was turned around remarkably quickly -- they had it one full day and we got it back first thing the next morning. It's very hard to complain about the modular way in which this car is serviced

I feel this is yet another advantage to the Tesla factory service model. They can design for speed of repair, instead of price of repair. The expense of needing to replace entire large modules and ship them back to the factory is offset by the local repair depot needn't stock a million smaller parts, just large assemblies. The engineers get to see real-world failures come back from the field without having a dealer try to "fix" it first. And they don't have to keep the dealers' profits padded with repairs that keep the techs busy for hours.

Crossing my fingers we don't have any more of these events.

Dan, we are all hoping you have no more events as well!

 

[stopcrazypp]

I feel this is yet another advantage to the Tesla factory service model. They can design for speed of repair, instead of price of repair. The expense of needing to replace entire large modules and ship them back to the factory is offset by the local repair depot needn't stock a million smaller parts, just large assemblies. The engineers get to see real-world failures come back from the field without having a dealer try to "fix" it first. And they don't have to keep the dealers' profits padded with repairs that keep the techs busy for hours.

The negative is that it gives the impression the entire part failed (even though most likely it's a smaller part inside the whole assembly) and calls into question the cost of service after warranty. Judging from the comments, most of them are negative and hold that kind of view. People are used to the dealer doing the fix and not shipping it back to the factory.

 

[Russell B]

Time for the truth

I've just about the same issues with my P2310.
- 12v died
- charge port stopped opening
- door handle stopped working
- pano roof noise/creaking
- side window triangle bar thing leaking air at highway speeds (twice, need to take it in again)
- replaced inverter
- replaced wheel hub thing (loud groaning noise while driving, not the same as lone droning at freeway speed, that was the inverter)
- pano roof leaving slime trails from too much goop/sealant
- loose visor clip caused it to be very noisy/rattle
- Missing/broken clip caused front fascia to pop out an inch or so

And that's just what I can recall off the top of my head...

I love my Model S, but I wouldn't remotely call it a high quality or reliable car at this stage in Tesla's life cycle. I've had more trouble with it in 1 year than 20 years of other cars.

I have finally come to the realization that my Model S is the finest car or almost any thing I have ever owned and I love it: however, the first few thousand were really not ready for prime time. They were beta tests and I've had most of the problems you have noted above with a few others. I know quite a bit about the Edmunds' car and have a picture of the two together, since mine is its twin. I have bought and sold TSLA on two different occasions, selling each time because of my fear of headline risk; and I really think this is the one that could really impact the company. Edmunds has a sterling reputation and no ax to grind. The notion of becoming a "brick" scares the heck out of me, I must admit. This isn't some NYT reporter doing a hit piece, but real life. If I was Edmunds, I wouldn't have taken the car back after having it dragged onto a truck. Sorry, but I was back in a Service Center today for a problem that had been addressed twice before.

 

[Chipper]

Threw a rod on a Hillman Minx while driving to CA for a wedding. My '65 Mustang was stolen and, improbably, recovered because it died in the middle of an intersection. My Acura stopped dead in the middle lane of a busy three lane road, due to an electrical failure of some sort; a bunch of high school kids stopped traffic and pushed me off to the side. My wife's '71 BMW 1600 was disabled by a failed water pump on a main road nearby. My Ford Bronco lost all braking ability (except the emergency brake) heading to Seattle one day. Got my only speeding ticket in the last 45 years because the cruise control on my Peugeot (I know, I know) went haywire. Happily, we've had AAA for forty years or so; despite several tows, probably they're still ahead, membership fee-wise.

Hey SeattleSid! I know you are far from me, but I were in your area I do not think I would want to ride with you. We would take MY car...not yours!:tongue:

 

[ZipByICE]

@SeattleSid:

Peugeot! That brings back memories. My wife clogged main road when she ended up with the manual shifter in her hand. Best feature of that car (it was a diesel): it was easy to get rid off any tailgaters, just step on the accelerator and black cloud would keep them away.

 

[Todd Burch]

I have finally come to the realization that my Model S is the finest car or almost any thing I have ever owned and I love it: however, the first few thousand were really not ready for prime time. They were beta tests and I've had most of the problems you have noted above with a few others. I know quite a bit about the Edmunds' car and have a picture of the two together, since mine is its twin. I have bought and sold TSLA on two different occasions, selling each time because of my fear of headline risk; and I really think this is the one that could really impact the company. Edmunds has a sterling reputation and no ax to grind. The notion of becoming a "brick" scares the heck out of me, I must admit. This isn't some NYT reporter doing a hit piece, but real life. If I was Edmunds, I wouldn't have taken the car back after having it dragged onto a truck. Sorry, but I was back in a Service Center today for a problem that had been addressed twice before.

In the end, even Edmunds has a VERY early car in the whole scheme of things. Keep in mind, all of us (myself included) with cars in the first 20,000 or so have new technology and an entirely new drivetrain platform. It shouldn't be indicitive of quality or reliability of the company's products or the technology as a whole.

Using this forum as a reference, it already appears that VIN 20k+ cars have better reliability, and I'm sure it keeps improving beyond that. Tesla is able to iterate quickly.

I hope that early buyers recognized that they might experience more issues than average before they confirmed their order. I did, and I've had a few issues but service has been excellent, they've fixed the issues, and I love driving this car!

 

[HankLloydRight]

And on the flip side, yesterday I ran into another owner at a SC who has a 22xx VIN. He has over 20,000 miles on the car and drives it every day from Darien, CT into NYC.

He said he hasn't had a single problem or issue with the car, ever.

 

[lolachampcar]

We are about ready to take delivery of MS #4. There have been two issues across the three we have already taken delivery on. My wife's car (#3) had the AC hard line vibrating against the steering shaft and my second had the visor mirror hinge self destruct feature (found by my wife as I prefer not to look at myself for obvious reasons). We have about 20K miles across all cars and are REALLY looking forward to getting the forth.