Electrify America general discussion

[Exelion]

If that is the case, it would make more sense to just install a boatload of L2 chargers, instead of a gimped L3 charger... You're just going to piss people off with a gimped L3 charger, particularly the ones that are just driving thru.

Gimped L2 chargers that pull only 3kw are just as bad, if not worse than, gimped DC chargers. We’re talking about 5% charge per hour. And I’ve hooked up to plenty of those!!

It’s all about leveraging the amount of chargers vs the charging rate vs the price. $0.20 per, 20 L2’s that charge at 10kW, and 8 DC chargers. Trhat may be too much to ask-but we’ll get there one day.

 

[avs007]

I don't find these suggestions of using L2 at a store like this to make any sense at all. L2 is for places where a car is going to be parked anyway for HOURS. This half hour to an hour in an IKEA is going to amount to like 30 miles added. It's ridiculous and not useful. The 50 kW or higher is more reasonable for a store.

I've never spent less than 2 hours at an IKEA. The one I normally go to, the entrance is an escalator to the third floor, and you have to walk all the way thru all the departments to get out.... The restaurant usually has a long line as well.

Nobody is going on a road trip to IKEA. 30 miles is fine, since you'll recoup what you spent to get there. If you're going to put in a fast charger, just put in a 150-350kW one. People will spend less time at it, because it will charge faster. 50 kW is stupid for a fast charger. At the very least make them shared then, so if not many people are there, you can still pull max amperage.

 

[Mockingbird]

Kind of strange. The last thing I'd do on a road trip is stop at IKEA to pick up a piece of furniture and...I don't know, keep the thing in the car until I get home? Except I probably don't have space for it, because I'm on a road trip.

As mentioned before, IKEA has a nice food court.

 

[avs007]

It’s all about leveraging the amount of chargers vs the charging rate vs the price. $0.20 per, 20 L2’s that charge at 10kW, and 8 DC chargers. Trhat may be too much to ask-but we’ll get there one day.

I went to a parking garage in Vancouver that had like 12 superchargers, and then an aisle of I think 12 L2 chargers in the next row. I think Santana Row Mall is the same setup in the Bay Area, except more L2 chargers.

 

[avs007]

As mentioned before, IKEA has a nice food court.

If you're on a road trip, and want to stop at a food court, 50 kW is way too slow. Put in a regular DCFC at that point.

 

[RTPEV]

I don't find these suggestions of using L2 at a store like this to make any sense at all. L2 is for places where a car is going to be parked anyway for HOURS. This half hour to an hour in an IKEA is going to amount to like 30 miles added. It's ridiculous and not useful. The 50 kW or higher is more reasonable for a store.

On a road trip, yeah, that makes sense.

But in my neck of the woods we have one IKEA in Charlotte, NC that people travel to from around the state, sort of as a destination in its own once or twice a year, possibly combined with another attraction or venue, but typically a day trip. For me that's 145 miles each way, 290 miles round trip...a bit tight to make without a Supercharging stop. Given that you're likely to spend 2 hours in the store (closer to 3 if you go for the meatballs) and getting 30-40 miles per hour, that makes it possible to make the entire trip without a dedicated charging stop.

Would this make sense in a store like WalMart or Home Depot that are more common? Probably not. But for a popular chain like IKEA that has limited outlets, I think it does.

 

[Rocky_H]

It seems there is a different philosophy or understanding about what these are for or the purpose of them. Here are two examples where people seem to be talking about the purpose of them as only needing to recover the amount of range used for the trip to IKEA. It's like IKEA is the purpose for the trip, and the charging is just a happenstance convenience for that trip to the store.

Given that you're likely to spend 2 hours in the store (closer to 3 if you go for the meatballs) and getting 30-40 miles per hour, that makes it possible to make the entire trip without a dedicated charging stop.

30 miles is fine, since you'll recoup what you spent to get there.

I was never thinking that's what the purpose of this was supposed to be. I thought the reason for being of these sites is that they need to be charging sites for charging! It is a place in that region or city for people (like apartment dwellers) to fill up their cars if they don't have home charging. That example above of using up 30 miles to go, only to recover that 30 miles, gives someone exactly NOTHING.

So if the purpose of these stations is really for charging, and IKEA is simply raising their hand to volunteer to host because it will help them with some side business or advertising, then these really do need to be fast charging stations and not L2.

 

[Genie]

If I drove ~50 miles to the nearest IKEA ( to shop there) I would love to have some L2 I could use. It’s been quite a while but I remember IKEA shopping being a 2+ hour affair.
My Drs Office Is ~ 30 miles, they have 1 free L2 and 2 chargepoint 50kW L3. The L2 is perfect for a round trip and even though its maybe $1 worth of power, it pleases me.

 

[STS-134]

As mentioned before, IKEA has a nice food court.

Takes way, way too long to get there to do on a road trip. It's IKEA, you have to first park, sometimes nowhere near the store entrance. Then walk or take the elevator to the entrance on another level, in some stores. THEN you need to enter the store and go up to the cafe, and it's always up yet another level and requires another trip on an escalator/elevator. For the two IKEA stores I have been in, the cafe is at least close to the entrance (as in almost directly above it, so you aren't actually required to walk through the furniture section just to get to the cafe), but I'm not sure if that's the case at all IKEA stores. Still, it's a lot of time to park and walk there if you're on a road trip and trying to grab a quick bite and leave for the next stop.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

On a road trip, yeah, that makes sense.

But in my neck of the woods we have one IKEA in Charlotte, NC that people travel to from around the state, sort of as a destination in its own once or twice a year, possibly combined with another attraction or venue, but typically a day trip. For me that's 145 miles each way, 290 miles round trip...a bit tight to make without a Supercharging stop. Given that you're likely to spend 2 hours in the store (closer to 3 if you go for the meatballs) and getting 30-40 miles per hour, that makes it possible to make the entire trip without a dedicated charging stop.

Would this make sense in a store like WalMart or Home Depot that are more common? Probably not. But for a popular chain like IKEA that has limited outlets, I think it does.

In short, IKEA is an infrequent destination, with a long stay, so destination charging is more appropriate than DCFC.
But if it's near a highway exit, not going to say it's bad for DCFC. Any port in a storm. Especially a port with bathrooms.

2 groups of people who need DCFC.
- People traveling in an EV who want a meal break
- People in an EV who need to charge as fast as possible.

People who need destination charging:
- People in an EV who want to avoid a dedicated DCFC stop

Why people need DCFC:
- traveling
- can't charge adequately at home or work
- can't get enough destination charging

 

[RTPEV]

Takes way, way too long to get there to do on a road trip. It's IKEA, you have to first park, sometimes nowhere near the store entrance. Then walk or take the elevator to the entrance on another level, in some stores. THEN you need to enter the store and go up to the cafe, and it's always up yet another level and requires another trip on an escalator/elevator. For the two IKEA stores I have been in, the cafe is at least close to the entrance (as in almost directly above it, so you aren't actually required to walk through the furniture section just to get to the cafe), but I'm not sure if that's the case at all IKEA stores. Still, it's a lot of time to park and walk there if you're on a road trip and trying to grab a quick bite and leave for the next stop.

I was going to mention the same thing, but I've only been to a single IKEA, so I have no idea if the layout is typical. Sounds like it may be. I did go to IKEA once with the sole purpose of getting lunch and I swear it was at least a 45 minute process...and I was trying to hurry!

The cafe in "my" IKEA is a bit like the gift shop located at the end of amusement park rides. It's generally accessible only after you've walked through the entire maze that is the store and gotten to the cash registers. Yes, there is a secret passage that you can use to get directly there (if you know the secret), but even then there is a pretty big wait as you wind through the serving and cashier lines and then try to find a seat.

The entire store seems intentionally designed to make you spend as much time as possible there! Brilliant on their part, but as a consumer, you'd better plan a lengthy visit if you enter the building!

 

[CapsEngineer]

The Ikea in College Park must be a unicorn -- easy in and out of the cafeteria. We used to go there before going to UMD basketball games.

 

[Mockingbird]

New coming soon locations:

Jamestown, ND

Great Falls, MT

Edina, MN

Clive, IA

Des Moines, IA

Portland, OR

Eugene , OR

Madras, OR

North Bend, OR

Grand Canyon Village, AZ

Fairfield, TX

Pflugerville , TX

Vance, AL

Highland Heights, OH

Burke, VA

Queenstown, MD

East Hartford, CT

Lutz, FL

St Petersburg, FL

Jensen Beach, FL

 

[Big Earl]

New coming soon locations:

1. Jamestown, ND
2. Great Falls, MT
3. Edina, MN
4. Clive, IA
5. Des Moines, IA
6. Portland, OR
7. Eugene , OR
8. Madras, OR
9. North Bend, OR
10. Grand Canyon Village, AZ
11. Fairfield, TX
12. Pflugerville , TX
13. Vance, AL
14. Highland Heights, OH
15. Burke, VA
16. Queenstown, MD
17. East Hartford, CT
18. Lutz, FL
19. St Petersburg, FL
20. Jensen Beach, FL

I-90 and I-94 are looking pretty sad. I saw an Ioniq 5 north of Sheridan, Wyoming a few weeks back, traveling through the DC charging desert on level 2.

I want to take a moment to compare Tesla's expansion to Electrify America's. While we don't know EA's timeline for this meager list of builds, Tesla has started construction on the following 23 sites so far in August:

Construction start date	Location	Number of stalls
1 Aug	Chugiak, AK	8
2 Aug	Mariposa, CA	12
2 Aug	Pueblo, CO	12
2 Aug	Anaheim, CA	16
2 Aug	Fairfax, VA	12
4 Aug	North Branch, MN	8
8 Aug	Ypsilanti, MI	12
8 Aug	Kissimmee, FL	16
8 Aug	Olema, CA	7
9 Aug	Needles, CA	12
10 Aug	Dunnigan, CA	8
10 Aug	Fairfield, CA	12
12 Aug	Ellenton, FL	8
12 Aug	Elgin, IL	12
12 Aug	Vancouver, WA	12
14 Aug	Fortuna Foothills, AZ	12
14 Aug	Dublin, CA	12
16 Aug	Bakersfield, CA	12
16 Aug	Adairsville, GA	12
16 Aug	Orlando, FL	16
18 Aug	Fullerton, CA	16
19 Aug	Covington, LA	12
19 Aug	Lakewood, CA	20
		279

Edit: I just realized that this stall count of 279 is more than 10% of Electrify America's entire CCS inventory.

 

[wws]

I-90 and I-94 are looking pretty sad. I saw an Ioniq 5 north of Sheridan, Wyoming a few weeks back, traveling through the DC charging desert on level 2...

I-80 across Wyoming is also pretty bleak for CCS drivers. Tesla covered it years ago.

If I were Technoking, I-80 would have been the first coast to coast DCFCed route - not one of the last. (Lots of transportation history on that route across Wyoming.)

 

[ThomasD]

So someone who may need to charge can't. The chargers are taken up by people who stay in the spots for a couple of hours shopping.

 

[Mockingbird]

I-90 and I-94 are looking pretty sad. I saw an Ioniq 5 north of Sheridan, Wyoming a few weeks back, traveling through the DC charging desert on level 2.

I want to take a moment to compare Tesla's expansion to Electrify America's. While we don't know EA's timeline for this meager list of builds, Tesla has started construction on the following 23 sites so far in August:

Construction start date	Location	Number of stalls
1 Aug	Chugiak, AK	8
2 Aug	Mariposa, CA	12
2 Aug	Pueblo, CO	12
2 Aug	Anaheim, CA	16
2 Aug	Fairfax, VA	12
4 Aug	North Branch, MN	8
8 Aug	Ypsilanti, MI	12
8 Aug	Kissimmee, FL	16
8 Aug	Olema, CA	7
9 Aug	Needles, CA	12
10 Aug	Dunnigan, CA	8
10 Aug	Fairfield, CA	12
12 Aug	Ellenton, FL	8
12 Aug	Elgin, IL	12
12 Aug	Vancouver, WA	12
14 Aug	Fortuna Foothills, AZ	12
14 Aug	Dublin, CA	12
16 Aug	Bakersfield, CA	12
16 Aug	Adairsville, GA	12
16 Aug	Orlando, FL	16
18 Aug	Fullerton, CA	16
19 Aug	Covington, LA	12
19 Aug	Lakewood, CA	20
		279

Edit: I just realized that this stall count of 279 is more than 10% of Electrify America's entire CCS inventory.

Electrify America has plenty of charging stations that construction is completed, but the transformer and/or the switchgear cabinet are missing. (Some sites were completed over a year ago.)

So, it doesn't make sense for Electrify America to speed up construction when the bottleneck is the supply of transformers and switchgear cabinets.

 

[Mockingbird]

I-80 across Wyoming is also pretty bleak for CCS drivers. Tesla covered it years ago.

If I were Technoking, I-80 would have been the first coast to coast DCFCed route - not one of the last. (Lots of transportation history on that route across Wyoming.)

Electrify America has charging stations in Evanston, Rawlings, and Cheyenne

 

[RTPEV]

Electrify America has plenty of charging stations that construction is completed, but the transformer and/or the switchgear cabinet are missing. (Some sites were completed over a year ago.)

So, it doesn't make sense for Electrify America to speed up construction when the bottleneck is the supply of transformers and switchgear cabinets.

Right...it also didn't make sense for them to purchase, allocate, and install the charging stations that far ahead of getting the utility end of it lined up. Sure, some things are out of their hands, and $#!+ happens occasionally, but this is where project management experience comes into play.

They will get there eventually, but as we've had this discussion in the past, this is an example of where Tesla's experience helps them out here and they have their system running very smoothly here.

 

[MP3Mike]

It certainly doesn't help that EA reliability has been so bad that some people are actively avoiding using them now. (I, and other people, consider the site failed when it "degrades" to only supplying 32kW.)

Transport Evolved mentioned in a recent live stream that on their trip using a F150 Lightning that they have started avoiding EA because of the issues. ("Degraded", site reported as working but it isn't when you arrive, etc.) They said that they will provide more details in their trip report once they get home and done editing the video.