Elon Musk tweets software upgrade will increase P85D range

[darthy001]

I don't believe the P85D has 25% less real world range. Anyone have numbers to back that up?

Wk057 and MarcG has several threads on this. With wk057 coming directly from a P85. Several others who have upgraded have also written about not having a chance to reach the same numbers as their previous cars.

Personally I wanted to believe their numbers where off, but so far everyone has written about similar numbers way higher than RWD cars. There was one user who got within 30wh of the numbers from his old car, but that is the best I've seem so far and in perfect conditions in Florida.

 

[lolachampcar]

rcc,
This is not a bug issue. My take from Elon's tweet is it was a decision to ship something that was not in keeping with initial expectations and a subsequent tweet indicating a correction was coming.

As for actual change in range, the only way for me to form an opinion is to borrow a PD and drive several known routs for which I have developed very repeatable consumption numbers for both my P+ and the P before that. I am planning on doing just this before my car goes into production.

 

[NOLA_Mike]

I can add my datapoint to this discussion - take it for what it's worth.

As a P85+ owner for 1.5 years and 15,000 miles I have a very good handle on what to expect in the way of range in varying weather conditions. I had become very comfortable estimating range and with specifically what I needed to do to improve it.

I can tell you that my first trip in my P85D yesterday from Houston to New Orleans made me nervous in a way I haven't been since my earliest days of P85+ ownership. I would not doubt that a 25% reduction in range is a good estimate compared to my P85+. If it would not have been for this forum and those that took delivery before me reporting here I might have blindly headed out just assuming everything would be as it was in the P85+.

I made the leg from Lake Charles, LA to home - 195 miles - in the P85D yesterday starting out with a displayed Rated Range of 249 miles. I had 13 rated miles remaining when I arrived home. No adverse weather, temperatures in the mid 60s and no elevation changes. I traveled 60 MPH for most of the trip (10 MPH under the speed limit). Had I been in my P85+ (as I've made the trip numerous times before) in those conditions I would have used less Rated Miles than Actual Miles traveled.

I trust Tesla will make this right with a firmware update in the near future.

Mike

 

[lolachampcar]

The response I got from Tesla indicated I should expect roughly an 8% reduction in range with the PD when compared to the P+ (both on 21s).

 

[Andyw2100]

The response I got from Tesla indicated I should expect roughly an 8% reduction in range with the PD when compared to the P+ (both on 21s).

What does this mean? An 8% reduction currently, before this software update that Musk tweeted about? Or an 8% reduction --AFTER-- the software update that Musk said would get them close?

 

[lolachampcar]

"[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif]The only range test for Dual Motor Model S that has been confirmed by the EPA is for a P85D equipped with 21" wheels and summer tires. With this configuration, the EPA tested 242 miles."[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif]There was no indication as to what firmware was being used so I have no way of knowing if it was using the firmware that is being shipped or the one that is on its way. My solution to the problem is four posts up as I really do not know what it means. All I can do is understand what it is that I am buying if take delivery in three weeks.[/FONT]

 

[NOLA_Mike]

The response I got from Tesla indicated I should expect roughly an 8% reduction in range with the PD when compared to the P+ (both on 21s).

A little more perspective on my trip this week - at 60 MPH with no wind, moderate temperatures I would have consumed between 280-290 Whr/mile. The new P85D was consuming 350-360 WHr/mile. Easily 21%+ more consumption. I'll give you it was one trip and therefore just one datapoint but certainly well more than 8%.

Mike

 

[dennis]

"The only range test for Dual Motor Model S that has been confirmed by the EPA is for a P85D equipped with 21" wheels and summer tires. With this configuration, the EPA tested 242 miles."

There was no indication as to what firmware was being used so I have no way of knowing if it was using the firmware that is being shipped or the one that is on its way. My solution to the problem is four posts up as I really do not know what it means. All I can do is understand what it is that I am buying if take delivery in three weeks.

This looks a little suspect to me, like it came from sales or marketing. First, it says "has been confirmed by the EPA", but the Tesla website says " Range shown for 85D and P85D is estimated, pending EPA confirmation". Second. it says "the EPA tested 242 miles" but we know that the manufacturers do the testing and submit the results to the EPA. The EPA only tests a small percentage of cars - I think I read 15% on the EPA site. So I think his 8% is just a (265-242)/265 = 8.6 % truncated to 8%.

 

[lolachampcar]

Actually, I generated the roughly 8% number myself using that exact method.
As for the verbiage, I agree that it is suspicious which is why I want to do my own test to see if I can live with the range Tesla is currently delivering.

 

[wk057]

Did some more driving today. I'm holding firm on my statement of 25% range reduction. 900 miles on the P85D now.

 

[dennis]

Did anyone else notice that the 2 posts about increasing the range for the P85D have been removed from Elon's Twitter feed? I tried linking from the first post on this thread. Twitter now says those pages don't exist:

Software update to achieve max efficiency (going to full idle on 2nd motor) is not out yet. Range of P85D should then closely match P85+.

85D has higher range than 85 when using the same tires. Sport tires have better handling, but 3% to 5% range impact. Tradeoff is worth it

First:

Elon Musk on Twitter:

and second:

Elon Musk on Twitter:

Also, if you go to his Twitter feed you see his recent tweets about battery swap, Roadster upgrade and oatmeal raisin cookies, but not the ones on the P85D.

Elon Musk on Twitter:

I wonder what this means? All conspiracy theorists please step up. :wink:

 

[403portside]

Wow. In the twitter-verse that is borderline criminal. Just when I thought tesla or elon couldn't get any more dodgy on this issue.

 

[wk057]

Yeah, that does not seem like a good thing. Not like removing it will remove the knowledge of it anyway. I'm pretty surprised that he would say something then pull back on it if it were valid.

At this point I'm afraid the P85D may very well be stuck with crap range... and if that's the case, I'm going to be seeking a resolution.

On a side note, I haven't heard back from Jerome or ownership@ in response to my emails about the issue... not that I expected one before early next week anyway.

Edit: This seems like it needed some additional exposure, so I started an Elon Musk deletes twitter posts about P85D/85D efficiency increases thread

 

[403portside]

So, I just recalled that I tweeted to both Ricardo and Elon earlier today and asked them to explain the discrepancy between getting range 'near' the P85 vs exceeding the P85 as originally marketed. I wonder if that played a part? Perhaps the removal means they do plan to 'exceed' or perhaps that's wishful thinking on my part. I have to think they are savvy enough to understand what I means to delete a tweet.

 

[Andyw2100]

At this point I'm afraid the P85D may very well be stuck with crap range... and if that's the case, I'm going to be seeking a resolution.

The bit that keeps me optimistic in all this is the fact the ON THE STICKERS THAT CAME WITH OUR P85Ds Tesla is showing an EPA Highway rating HIGHER than the P85.

You can say whatever you want about what we should or should not have inferred from the D announcement or from the numbers Tesla had on their website at any point in time. But the bottom line is that Tesla put EPA test figures on our cars' stickers that demonstrate a higher highway MPGe than the P85. That has to mean something.

 

[wk057]

The bit that keeps me optimistic in all this is the fact the ON THE STICKERS THAT CAME WITH OUR P85Ds Tesla is showing an EPA Highway rating HIGHER than the P85.

You can say whatever you want about what we should or should not have inferred from the D announcement or from the numbers Tesla had on their website at any point in time. But the bottom line is that Tesla put EPA test figures on our cars' stickers that demonstrate a higher highway MPGe than the P85. That has to mean something.

Yeah, definitely not seeing those numbers in real world right now.

 

[dennis]

The bit that keeps me optimistic in all this is the fact the ON THE STICKERS THAT CAME WITH OUR P85Ds Tesla is showing an EPA Highway rating HIGHER than the P85.

You can say whatever you want about what we should or should not have inferred from the D announcement or from the numbers Tesla had on their website at any point in time. But the bottom line is that Tesla put EPA test figures on our cars' stickers that demonstrate a higher highway MPGe than the P85. That has to mean something.

I agree with that sentiment. It is clear that the current software in the delivered P85D's couldn't possibly be the same as what Tesla used to conduct the EPA tests.

 

[Andyw2100]

Yeah, definitely not seeing those numbers in real world right now.

Oh, I know.

I have 100% confidence in the numbers you have been reporting, and the numbers others here have been reporting. There are plenty of people here, you among them, who have enough experience driving the P85s to be able to say with certainty that there is a huge range difference in the P85Ds. I was just saying that I'm optimistic, based on the number on the sticker, that deleted tweet or not, something has to change for the good.

 

[EarlyAdopter]

I agree, we are definitely not seeing the increased highway mileage shown on the EPA sticker.

That said, for all this talk of 25% drops, I say - show me the exact same conditions, exact same route. Otherwise, it's complete conjecture.

When I did a back-to-back test, same day, same route with my P85 and P85D, both on 21"s, I saw a 6% drop.

That data is here.

Interestingly enough, that's exactly the difference shown by both cars on a full charge - 265 rated miles vs 250 rated miles.

 

[wk057]

That said, for all this talk of 25% drops, I say - show me the exact same conditions, exact same route. Otherwise, it's complete conjecture.

No offense, but your data is 15 miles. I have 900 in on the P85D already on routes I've taken many many times in the P85. I know pretty much exactly how the P85 would do on these routes, and it is way better than the P85D. Closer to 25% than 6% for sure.

But to put it to rest I have two dash cams and two GoPro's ready to go for the next clear day that my fiance is free for a bit to do a controlled run on the same round trip at the same time in her P85. GoPros will be positioned to see both screens.