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Krugerrand
Meow
Not free, but I do believe they could return their cars and get their money (mostly) back.
scottf200
Well-Known Member
And then they should be put on a list forever. I've read some stunning comments overall these issues in the past many months (car lowering as classic example while they figured out a solution).
There's no one reason why people chose to buy this car. That whole line of questioning is irrelevant. Fact is, Elon made a claim, and some people (including me and others in here) factored that into their decision to purchase.
If it didn't factor into your decision, that's fine but don't dismiss the gripes of others. It's a legitimate gripe.
The next gen seats are not a huge deal for me (I paid for them, so I do expect to get them eventually), but while I won't be vocally complaining about it, I won't dismiss the gripes of others for whom the upgraded seats are an issue.
And Elon definitely claimed increased range. There's no doubt about it. Every news story reported it after the launch event and even on here it was touted as a selling point. It wasn't until later that people began questioning it and Tesla began changing numbers on the website.
+1 to RAW84
I just dont see why people feel the need to belittle other peoples reasoning for buying a 130k car just because they dont agree with range playing a part in such a decision. Of course most people know that AWD normally means less range, but when the CEO stands on a stage boasting about a major enginiering-feat resulting in the opposite are we supposed not to believe him? Are we not supposed to believe the numbers in the sales material?
Is it really that hard to understand that people are mad and/or disappointed that for the time being there is a real risk they have been taken for fools?
I just dont see why people feel the need to belittle other peoples reasoning for buying a 130k car just because they dont agree with range playing a part in such a decision. Of course most people know that AWD normally means less range, but when the CEO stands on a stage boasting about a major enginiering-feat resulting in the opposite are we supposed not to believe him? Are we not supposed to believe the numbers in the sales material?
Is it really that hard to understand that people are mad and/or disappointed that for the time being there is a real risk they have been taken for fools?
green1
Active Member
Happiness guarantee allows you to return the car if you aren't satisfied in the first 3 months. You are however "put on a list" and can't "immediately" reorder. I'm not sure what the cool-down period is before you're allowed to order again.
Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
I haven't been complaining much about the range issue, but it most certainly is an issue that is of great concern to me and my wife. As such, it may be of interest to you, Krugerrand, as to how we came to our decision to purchase the P85D, because you are both right and wrong in what you wrote above, at least in how it relates to us.
I knew almost nothing about Tesla before the D announcement. I certainly wasn't even thinking about purchasing a Tesla. I've also never owned any kind of real sports car. The car I'll still be driving some of the time, that the P85D is "replacing" is a 2004 Acura TL. My wife drives a Subaru Forester. She'll also be driving the P85D, on a regular 100-mile round trip to work.
Before the D announcement in October we had half-heartedly looked into electric vehicles a little bit. I liked the Honda Accord plug-in. In my mind, that was probably the front-runner. And when I say "looked into" I mean "researched online." I doubt we had spent more than an hour on it. It wasn't a serious endeavor.
I also had known for years that the next new vehicle I bought would have to be all wheel drive. Shortly after buying the 2004 Acura I bought a house with a long, steep driveway. In the climate I live in, coupled with my driveway, I need AWD.
I had heard rumors of what was to be announced at the D announcement, and watched some of it live (I believe--I remember trying to find a live stream), and then read more and watched more the next day. I was really interested, but not in a "I might buy this" kind of way. It was just a really cool car that I wasn't ever going to have.
The thing was that I became kind of obsessed with the idea of having one, and kept reading more and watching more. The autopilot stuff blew me away! I don't know how it happened, but at some point I decided that I actually wanted to own one of these things. Even more crazy was that I somehow convinced my wife that we should buy a Model S. I'm really still not sure how I pulled that off, but I did.
So at that point we're buying a model S, and it's definitely going to be a D. Fine.
Part of me--a big part--wanted to have the top of the line. The best of everything. Of course I was looking at the P85D. I saw that it had --SLIGHTLY-- less range than the non-P version, but I decided that wasn't a big enough issue for me to not get the top of the line car. I knew I didn't in any conceivable way need 0-60, 3.2 acceleration, but I had seen it and now I wanted it. But then came the issue with the wheels. I had read about the 21 inch wheels, the issues those caused with going through tires quickly, the issues with damaging the wheels on the rough roads, and I made the practical decision that we needed to have 19 inch wheels on our Model S. I got in touch with Tesla to ask if they'd be offering a 19 inch wheel option on the P85D. I was told they would not be. I made the difficult decision to go with the S85D. I told myself it's the only sensible thing to do. The increased range wasn't even a factor at that point. To be honest, neither was the lower cost. It was all about the wheels.
Configuring cars on the site, which I had been doing over and over and over again--it's a good thing Tesla doesn't charge for that--I had also realized I wanted the Next Generation Seats, in grey. They were not available yet on the S85D. It was pretty clear to me, though, that it was probably only a matter of time before the seats would be available, and we were not in any rush to order, since the S85D wasn't going to be available for a while anyway, so we decided to wait and see what happened.
One morning I woke up and read on this forum that the P85D was suddenly available for ordering with 19 inch wheels, and with grey Next Generation seats! I called my wife at work, and we wound up ordering the car that morning! And again, the slight difference in range between the models was not a factor.
Like everyone else here, I am hopeful that the software update Musk tweeted about will, in fact, make the range difference between the P85D and the S85D the slight difference that was initially shown on the website. But if it doesn't, and if the range difference winds up being very significant, then it really will be an issue for us, as we really may have made a different decision. We were all set to go with the S85D if we had to just because of the wheels. We certainly would have done so for a major difference in range.
Does that make sense?
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breser
AutoPilot Nostradamus
That only applies to the lease. We have reason to believe that Tesla will do something like the happiness guarantee for a purchase (Elon's "The House Always Wins Blog"). The happiness guarantee on the lease only says that you can't lease again not order. I'm of the opinion that I pretty much got treated like a happiness guarantee with my S85 and have reordered an 85D. So I believe the limitation on the lease is just that you can't return a lease and re-lease.
gg_got_a_tesla
Model S: VIN 65513, Model 3: VIN 1913
I can commiserate with those who did expect higher range let alone not losing any from the 265 mark. Personally, I would not miss the missing 23 miles (or 15 miles with the 19" wheels) with the P85D anytime soon and the software update to remedy this will eventually be here anyway. I had done several roadtrips in my erstwhile S60 so can easily manage.
As many of you on these forums know, I've been around a while and hang on anything Tesla. And, had an order in for an S85 in early September before the D announcement. Then, briefly an order for an S85D before going all in. The distinct takeaway from the D event, Elon's speech and the announcements/web page updates after was indeed that the Ds will have (atleast slightly) higher range, period. And, that the P85D would have marginally less range than the S85D but, that they would both beat their non-D counterparts for sure and that that was a first with any AWD/non-AWD comparisons for any given car.
Anyway, long story short, Tesla/Elon did miss a trick here - with not having the right firmware ready at launch and making it seem (in my opinion, surely unintentionally) not entirely what it is and even what it is going to be. The software update will hopefully calm some nerves. I'm still a very happy camper.
As many of you on these forums know, I've been around a while and hang on anything Tesla. And, had an order in for an S85 in early September before the D announcement. Then, briefly an order for an S85D before going all in. The distinct takeaway from the D event, Elon's speech and the announcements/web page updates after was indeed that the Ds will have (atleast slightly) higher range, period. And, that the P85D would have marginally less range than the S85D but, that they would both beat their non-D counterparts for sure and that that was a first with any AWD/non-AWD comparisons for any given car.
Anyway, long story short, Tesla/Elon did miss a trick here - with not having the right firmware ready at launch and making it seem (in my opinion, surely unintentionally) not entirely what it is and even what it is going to be. The software update will hopefully calm some nerves. I'm still a very happy camper.
Krugerrand
Meow
First, I didn't say there was only one reason people chose to buy the car, nor did I say it wasn't a legitimate gripe. So, thanks for proving my point.
I'm not 100% sure I would not have gotten the P85D if it had said "200 mile range" on the website for example... but I don't know if I would have traded my P85 in that case. I was under the impression I was basically upgrading on all fronts: power, range, tech. Turns out I now have more power, a good 25% less real world range, and tech that I bought and paid for that does virtually nothing yet (autopilot).
The range issue is definitely a factor. My ~572 mile drive on Tuesday took at least an hour longer than expected due to longer charges needed. With my P85 I could make that trip with a 5% rated miles buffer between stops. With the P85D, not so much.
I've been thinking a bit about it and I'm actually curious if Tesla would let me out of the P85 trade-in and sell me back the car at a reasonable price. It is still on my app and My Tesla dashboard... and still sitting at the Devon, PA service center exactly where I parked it so far. I like the P85D. It's pretty awesome. But if this efficiency stuff isn't solved soon (as in, within the next couple of weeks), I'll prefer something with a longer range for my out of town trips, probably, and my fiance's P85 isn't going to always be available for such trips. And it may push me towards reselling the P85D out of practicality, since I really don't need three Model S at my house...
I hope they get it right, and soon, because I really am feeling a bit duped.
The range issue is definitely a factor. My ~572 mile drive on Tuesday took at least an hour longer than expected due to longer charges needed. With my P85 I could make that trip with a 5% rated miles buffer between stops. With the P85D, not so much.
I've been thinking a bit about it and I'm actually curious if Tesla would let me out of the P85 trade-in and sell me back the car at a reasonable price. It is still on my app and My Tesla dashboard... and still sitting at the Devon, PA service center exactly where I parked it so far. I like the P85D. It's pretty awesome. But if this efficiency stuff isn't solved soon (as in, within the next couple of weeks), I'll prefer something with a longer range for my out of town trips, probably, and my fiance's P85 isn't going to always be available for such trips. And it may push me towards reselling the P85D out of practicality, since I really don't need three Model S at my house...
I hope they get it right, and soon, because I really am feeling a bit duped.
*sigh*
I'm done.
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Makes perfect sense to me. I was wavering between the 85D and the P85D myself. The wait (and implications of said wait) for the 85D is the biggest factor that steered me towards the P85D
Johan
Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!
Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
That 2 weeks is just a complete guess, though, right Johan? We haven't seen or heard any ETA from Tesla officially, unoffically, or otherwise, right?
We have been hearing lots of rumors about the Adaptive Cruise Control software update, but I don't think other than confirmation that it will come eventually, we've heard anything about the one Musk made reference to.
Johan
Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!
Yes it's a guess, and a comment as to the fact that Tesla are extremely poor at giving time guidance.
Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
OK. Just wanted to clear that up, as jweinstein was asking if we had any INDICATION of when it was coming, which I took to mean as a request for something that someone had actually heard from or seen put out officially by Tesla.
Two weeks Tesla time is as good a guess as any.
gg_got_a_tesla
Model S: VIN 65513, Model 3: VIN 1913
I'm guessing the update will come by February right around the first S85D deliveries. Otherwise, there may be a lot more confused and potentially irate new D owners.
Anyone who buys the first of anything should expect bugs. Just be glad the bugs are in the software and can be fixed by OTA updates.
One big thing about software - you don't know when it'll be done until it's actually done. And most of Tesla's features are either software-based or have a huge software component.
So I wouldn't expect Tesla's time guidance to get significantly better anytime soon. Or ever. Unless they decide to move to a more conservative model where they only do major upgrades at set times per year. Personally, I'd rather they not go there but that's just me.
One big thing about software - you don't know when it'll be done until it's actually done. And most of Tesla's features are either software-based or have a huge software component.
So I wouldn't expect Tesla's time guidance to get significantly better anytime soon. Or ever. Unless they decide to move to a more conservative model where they only do major upgrades at set times per year. Personally, I'd rather they not go there but that's just me.
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