Elon Musk tweets software upgrade will increase P85D range

[scaesare]

Are the people on this thread who think we are 'hammering' Tesla too hard for merely asking them to deliver a specific feature that they marketed to us when we placed orders, also people who have actually placed P85D orders? Or just folks sitting on the sidelines?

Seeing as you quoted the word I used in my post, I'll answer:

I don't have a P85D. I bought a S85 19+ months ago. It didn't meet my expectations in a couple of significant ways, including one feature (fog lights) for which I felt there was an expectation communicated by Tesla that I felt strongly about.

I penned a constructive open letter to Elon/Tesla asking them to hear my concerns, and offering a couple of suggestions for remediation I felt would be acceptable. I posted it here & at telsamotors.com, asking other owners who were in the same situation to voice support if they cared to do so. A significant number did.

I got a positive response back from Elon outlining a plan to address the concern, and he even solicited feedback to see if it might be acceptable. It still involved waiting, but in the end we secured a retroactive installation of a superior item (redesigned Gen 2 fog lights) for all affected.

Now with 10K+ cars a month being shipped, I suspect the days of direct responses from Elon may be harder to come by... but I have had other dialog with ownership, the supercharger team, and folks from the service center that make it clear that corporate HQ is watching.

Try sugar before vinegar. I'd like to encourage more open dialog from Tesla, not less... Yes, help them to recognize there's missed expectation from some of their communication... but give them some time to respond and try and make it right.

And be sure to be just as vocal about the positive "unexpected" items (upgraded top speed... better torque curve for higher RPM acceleration, free internet access for 4 years, upgraded warranty, etc...) you get as you are about the negatives...

 

[wk057]

Unfortunately, human beings always tend to be more vocal about the negatives than the positives. I don't think there are many exceptions to this rule.

I've written about some of the positives, and even put up a few launch videos showing the awesome acceleration. However, the range issue is more important than this, since it affects the vehicle entirely and in everyday use.

I took my P85D out today, drove ~30 miles... 540 Wh/mi! I got on it one time at a light, though. (One of those two lanes on one side that merge into one on the other and someone always feels the need to one-up everyone in the main lane when the light turns... didn't allow that to happen and I defended the honor of everyone in the main lane from some fool by not allowing him to win this time... lol) Aside from that should have been a pretty uneventful drive. One I've done many times where in my P85 I probably would have seen mid 300s at worst Wh/mi.

Unfortunately it got a bit wet out and I wont be doing my side-by-side vs the P85 today... but I'll try tomorrow, or if it clears up today.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

As has been pointed out, hammering on this will only encourage Tesla to stop talking about anything that is planned, in development, or slated for improvement. Is that what we really want?

Yes, that is what I would like. The alternative is confusion and distrust, as you can see. Giving some buyer autopilot and others not, who took delivery at the same time, angers customers and makes them dislike your brand. So does saying that the P85D can go 285 miles, then change it later to 242 miles, then change it again to 250 miles. Then you state the top speed is 155 MPH, and after undoubtedly hundreds or maybe thousands of orders, Tesla adds an asterisk and footnote that the car is software limited to 130 MPH and that it will go faster after a forthcoming software update. Although not intended as such, it feels shady.

That's not something customers forget easily or quickly. These are self inflicted wounds.

No one in the history of humankind has ever done what Tesla has done, starting from zero in 10 years, and enduring the worst recession since the depression. All that while the CEO was also moonlighting as the first successful private rocket company CEO in history.

You can do the same without shooting your mouth off and prematurely launching products.

Criticism and holding Tesla feet to the warm glow of the fire is one thing, but expecting perfection from an incredibly bold collection of human beings is quite another.

The illusion of perfection is easier to achieve when you play your cards closer to your vest. Apple has found tremendous success in being secretive.

 

[jerry33]

Apple also gives a 30 day period where you can return the product. That covers those who purchase shortly before the new model came on sale. I doubt Tesla (or anyone else) could afford to do that with cars.

 

[Krugerrand]

Unfortunately, human beings always tend to be more vocal about the negatives than the positives. I don't think there are many exceptions to this rule.

I've written about some of the positives, and even put up a few launch videos showing the awesome acceleration. However, the range issue is more important than this, since it affects the vehicle entirely and in everyday use.

I took my P85D out today, drove ~30 miles... 540 Wh/mi! I got on it one time at a light, though. (One of those two lanes on one side that merge into one on the other and someone always feels the need to one-up everyone in the main lane when the light turns... didn't allow that to happen and I defended the honor of everyone in the main lane from some fool by not allowing him to win this time... lol) Aside from that should have been a pretty uneventful drive. One I've done many times where in my P85 I probably would have seen mid 300s at worst Wh/mi.

Unfortunately it got a bit wet out and I wont be doing my side-by-side vs the P85 today... but I'll try tomorrow, or if it clears up today.

So what are your plans? Are you taking a wait and see approach? Are you actively bugging select members of Tesla to get an answer? Are you hiring a lawyer?

We've heard about your concerns/disappointments/label them however, but I don't think we've heard how you plan on being compensated/made whole as a consumer.

 

[wk057]

So what are your plans? Are you taking a wait and see approach? Are you actively bugging select members of Tesla to get an answer? Are you hiring a lawyer?

We've heard about your concerns/disappointments/label them however, but I don't think we've heard how you plan on being compensated/made whole as a consumer.

As I have stated elsewhere, I'm presently waiting, along with having sent messages to multiple people at Tesla expressing my concerns. I'm realistic and will give them some time to sort out the issue, and I think that is more than fair. But as I've also stated, my patience do have limits.

If a reasonable solution is not made in a timely matter, I will deal with it at that time. I'd much prefer to come to a resolution with Tesla directly rather than hiring legal counsel. But one thing is for sure, the car as it sits with the efficiency it achieves is not acceptable and it either will be corrected or I will be compensated in some way for the difference in spec.

For now, I'm going to continue gathering data to use in my defense if needed, and to share with the folks here. I've moved my efforts on that front to a new thread: P85D vs. P85 Efficiency Testing

 

[skilly]

Apple also gives a 30 day period where you can return the product. That covers those who purchase shortly before the new model came on sale. I doubt Tesla (or anyone else) could afford to do that with cars.

a cooling off period (what you are referring to) is typically not available - in California they don't exist.

- - - Updated - - -

As has been pointed out, hammering on this will only encourage Tesla to stop talking about anything that is planned, in development, or slated for improvement. Is that what we really want?

No one in the history of humankind has ever done what Tesla has done, starting from zero in 10 years, and enduring the worst recession since the depression. All that while the CEO was also moonlighting as the first successful private rocket company CEO in history.

Criticism and holding Tesla feet to the warm glow of the fire is one thing, but expecting perfection from an incredibly bold collection of human beings is quite another.

Sorry but what publicly is TM saying about anything significant that would be missing out on by being vocal? I think their communication is pretty mixed in terms of its relevance and in fact, this issue isn't about a color change or fog light changes - its about the overall usability of the car. That to me, should be right before it hits the streets. Hell, they held the P85D back over seats (and horribly managed that communication), yet overlook this fundamental range issue? Sorry - I don't buy that approach at all. This is a two way street...not a one way with hope as a strategy.

 

[breser]

Hell, they held the P85D back over seats (and horribly managed that communication), yet overlook this fundamental range issue? Sorry - I don't buy that approach at all. This is a two way street...not a one way with hope as a strategy.

The seats were certainly an issue but we have good reason to believe they were not the only issue. Jerome's email implies as much in its wording. It's possible one of the hold ups is this very range issue and they decided they could fix it later. But if that's the case they should have told owners that before they took delivery.

 

[toto_48313]

Gas mileage: Fuel Proof - Marketplace - CBC News

Watch this, and you will see that ICE car manufacturer are even worth than Tesla on efficiency annoncement.
And without being able to expect any software update vs Tesla that annonce that an update will improve it.

 

[NigelM]

We've heard about your concerns/disappointments/label them however, but I don't think we've heard how you plan on being compensated/made whole as a consumer.

If a product doesn't perform as advertised it's hardly the consumer's responsibility to come up with a corrective plan.

 

[Krugerrand]

If a product doesn't perform as advertised it's hardly the consumer's responsibility to come up with a corrective plan.

Not arguing that, but is one simply going to sit at home, pound on their keyboard for days, waiting for the company to show up at their door with a new product or refund?

 

[AWDtsla]

Not arguing that, but is one simply going to sit at home, pound on their keyboard for days, waiting for the company to show up at their door with a new product or refund?

Well you guys keep bickering for couple weeks more, that is exactly what will happen in this case.

 

[mspohr]

If a product doesn't perform as advertised it's hardly the consumer's responsibility to come up with a corrective plan.

Basic customer service. Ask what they want to fix the problem. You have been quite vocal in your complaints but I'm still not sure what could be done other than the upcoming software update. What do you want? Perhaps a personal visit with a massage? Or perhaps have some software engineers serve you tea?

 

[dennis]

Giving some buyer autopilot and others not, who took delivery at the same time, angers customers and makes them dislike your brand. So does saying that the P85D can go 285 miles, then change it later to 242 miles, then change it again to 250 miles.

The P85D still goes 285 miles: at a constant 65 mph as originally stated. And the distinction between 242 and 250 was made as well: 21" wheels vs. 19" wheels. If you only focus on the number, and not the words around it, you do so at your own risk. AFAIK, the only number that has changed is the P85D EPA rating of 253 miles vs. 250 previously stated. That was announced today in JB's blog post, which also reconfirmed the 285 mile rating at a constant 65 mph.

Maybe the issue is that Tesla gives us too much information, so buyers get confused. The engineering mentality of the company shines through once again. Personally, I wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[AlMc]

A blog has been set up by a TM forum member documenting his winter cross country trip in his new P85D: 'P Dave': crosscountrytesla.blogspot.com

His post on TM: http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/blogging-5000-mile-p85d-crosscountry-winter-trip

 

[NigelM]

Not arguing that, but is one simply going to sit at home, pound on their keyboard for days, waiting for the company to show up at their door with a new product or refund?

What on earth would we do if you weren't here to preach constant patience? :smile:

- - - Updated - - -

You have been quite vocal in your complaints but I'm still not sure what could be done other than the upcoming software update. What do you want? Perhaps a personal visit with a massage? Or perhaps have some software engineers serve you tea?

You're confusing me with someone else. I don't have a P85D, didn't order one and haven't complained about one.

 

[digitaltim]

One of my criteria to "upgrade" before the P85D was announced was more range...which expected to addressed mostly through higher density batteries. After reading all this, I am glad I have waited thus far. I really want AWD plus the performance, but my daily/weekly commutes are horrendous and range gets the highest weighting for me in the decisioning.

 

[skilly]

The P85D still goes 285 miles: at a constant 65 mph as originally stated. .

it most certainly does not at the moment do that. Not a chance.

 

[mspohr]

it most certainly does not at the moment do that. Not a chance.

Straubel has a comprehensive blog post covering range and all of the ways of measuring it and the factors which influence it.
Driving Range for the Model S Family | Blog | Tesla Motors
In it, he states that the P85D gets 285 miles at constant 65mph with the new software (which hasn't been rolled out yet).
This blog post is a good read... highly recommended.

 

[randompersonx]

it most certainly does not at the moment do that. Not a chance.

I agree. I attempted this last week in Florida (so no heat, no turns, no elevation changes, etc), range mode, sport mode, cruise control set at 70MPH (the speed limit) for ~100 miles, and I would say with those conditions, 250-260 miles would be the tops you could expect. Air conditioning was running, as I think you would have to just be insane to want to sit in a P85D with cruise control set at the speed limit and no air conditioning for hours in Florida.

At this speed, I was being passed by everyone on the road, and it would have been unsafe to go slower.