Johan
Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!
Do you have any kind of indication, even if just indirect, of it running warmer? Where does all that extra energy go???
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Do you have any kind of indication, even if just indirect, of it running warmer? Where does all that extra energy go???
I haven't attempted to track down the "energy leak" beyond checking tire pressures and alignment (both of which were fine before, during, and after the trip I made).
I suppose I could do a few laps around the block in the P85D driving conservatively without climate control, then take some FLIR pics, then repeat with my fiance's P85... not sure how much info this could really provide though since there should be more heat in the front of the P85D anyway.
Johan
Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!
Well... Energy "wasted" i.e. not used to propel the car, must come out as heat somewhere. If a FLIR showed the rear motor as being substantially hotter as compared to the rear motor in a P85 (they should be very similar in set up) after an identical drive then it might suggest that in fact the front and rear motors are counteracting somehow?
Ah, you mean when they are not working together appropriately? That is definitely a theory... and hopefully such a thing would be correctable in software. I'll see if I have time today to do some more P85 vs P85D comparison stuff. Perhaps I can get my fiance to drive around with me using both cars for a bit and take some notes.
Johan
Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!
Yes, that would be interesting! As you say the front of the P85D should obviously be warmer after a drive, but if things were correctly programmed (which they're not) the rear ought to be cooler. Now if the rear of the is as warmer, or warmer than in the P85 it would surely suggest there is some kind of magnetic field interaction or something going on.
However, thinking more about this theory of the magnetic fields of front and rear motor being out of sync thereby causing them to work against each other just doesn't make sense. The motors are AC asynchronous right? They don't have permanent magnets in them. Their parts only become magnetized as you feed them with AC power, right? (Electromagnetism). So why would it be hard to idle a motor. Just don't feed any power to it and it will just spin along with the wheels it's attached to (at whatever the gear ratio is) with almost no amount of "passive resistance". Or am I misunderstanding some basic concept here?
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Induction motor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In this case, these motors are mechanically connected via the ground.
The s85 is remarkably easy to roll in tow mode compared to an ICE car in neutral. No 90* hypoid complications to the differential for one thing. I'm always surprised.
Suggest comparing cars on a flat concrete section using a fish scale, at both static and constant speed. Tow car could be an MS with scale hooked to hatch catch and assistant riding the tailgate with clipboard.
Fwiw.
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Suggest comparing cars on a flat concrete section using a fish scale, at both static and constant speed. Tow car could be an MS with scale hooked to hatch catch and assistant riding the tailgate with clipboard.
Fwiw.
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You're making this incredibly complicated. There's an easier way to directly measure loss, this is done on ICE cars on dyno's by clever engineers. You measure how long it takes to spin down/how much power it takes. Same can be done for a Tesla.
The simplified version is on a flat surface you enter at a constant velocity and measure the exiting velocity, making sure not to use regen.
Even more simplified is an A/B comparison. It doesn't really matter how flat the road is. Do the same measurement for an S85/P85/P85D.
Amazing and disheartening seeing all the people eager to give Tesla a pass on this.
Elon boasted that the both the P85D and the 85D would see greater range. The 85D would see a greater increase. I shouldn't need to do PhD level research to decipher what he really means. I, like most people, understand that rated performance does not equal actual performance so I'm not holding him to task on the actual numbers, but I did expect the relative performance to be in line with what Elon said and from the reviews, it is not. The range increase was a major part in my decision to purchase the P85D.
Now if an update fixes that, I'm OK (even tho it is a faux pas to release it this way), but they def need to fix it and no one should be giving them a pass for it.
Elon boasted that the both the P85D and the 85D would see greater range. The 85D would see a greater increase. I shouldn't need to do PhD level research to decipher what he really means. I, like most people, understand that rated performance does not equal actual performance so I'm not holding him to task on the actual numbers, but I did expect the relative performance to be in line with what Elon said and from the reviews, it is not. The range increase was a major part in my decision to purchase the P85D.
Now if an update fixes that, I'm OK (even tho it is a faux pas to release it this way), but they def need to fix it and no one should be giving them a pass for it.
110% agree. I'm very frustrated with the lack of explanation from Tesla as to why the numbers have evolved this way, without any communication to owners. I've sent a note to Jerome to see what he says. Either say, "we were wrong" or explain why the software will get us close to a P85 but not better, as they originally claimed when they were all too happy to take our money.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Funny
I haven't seen one anecdote that matches what Tesla claimed. Have seen several that sound like the one above.Who's giving them a pass? It's frickin Christmas. Let the engineers get in the office and take care of it. The reality is people are ready to get outraged at anything. Our entire "news" and "blog" sectors rely on it.
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
half this thread is people trying to explain how Tesla didn't actually claim it would get longer range. At least one person chided the consumer and suggested he should've gotten the 85D if he was concerned about range.
Krugerrand
Meow
And it is from their perspective that Tesla didn't claim it. Frustrating isn't it that you can have five people in a room and each one will hear something different from the speaker.
Are you honestly going to say that the vast majority of people bought the P85D for added mileage? Nobody even knew, let alone sniffed a hint, that AWD might add efficiency. NOBODY. People were waiting for AWD because they felt they needed AWD for weather conditions where they live. A small segment of 'performance buyers' bought it for insane mode. Even fewer bought it based solely on added efficiency, which apparently is coming.
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