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While I hate to use the tired Jobs/Musk analogy, I've got to whip it out here. Remember when Apple needed a "professional" CEO (Sculley) to take over from the inspirational but impetuous Jobs? Then Jobs left, company lost direction, almost went out of business... Until Jobs came back? Careful what you wish for. Most companies either never had or grew past an inspirational 'founder' (I recognize Musk did not found Tesla, but I don't know what other term to use). This company is so much about his vision that if you pull him out, I'm not sure what you have. Maybe Model 3 stablility is the time, but I think the broadened strategy (transport + energy) requires him around a while. For those who love the product who are frustrated because Musk is not conventional... Get used to it!
Yes he's a visionary leader like Jobs but that's where the analogy ends. Elon is no Steve Jobs and Tesla is no Apple, not even close. Apple is a huge, sophisticated (and very profitable) global enterprise. I read the comments above to mean that he has taken them a long way but if the goal is to be successful from a business point of view continuing to operate like a start up is not going to work. If Elon steps down from CEO and COB I would hope as the largest shareholder he would continue with his visionary and technical leadership.
By the way, this has nothing to do with being late with a blog post. I really don't see that as a big deal or symptomatic of anything else.
 
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Careful, there's a very long list of things they haven't yet delivered. Maybe they're just many many years late on some, but I doubt it. Granted most are fairly minor like lighted vanity mirrors and such, but there's also things like hands free on ramp to offramp driving, and summoning your car to your front door on private property for all AP cars which are almost 2 years late so far, and all indications are that there are no plans to deliver on either of these at all.
The list goes on and on and on.
And there is a much longer list of incredible features that Tesla has delivered and then there are amazing features that no one expected that have been delivered. That list also goes on and on...
 
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Yes he's a visionary leader like Jobs but that's where the analogy ends. Elon is no Steve Jobs and Tesla is no Apple, not even close. Apple is a huge, sophisticated (and very profitable) global enterprise. I read the comments above to mean that he has taken them a long way but if the goal is to be successful from a business point of view continuing to operate like a start up is not going to work. If Elon steps down from CEO and COB I would hope as the largest shareholder he would continue with his visionary and technical leadership.
By the way, this has nothing to do with being late with a blog post. I really don't see that as a big deal or symptomatic of anything else.
Any analogy has limits. We don't know how the two compare across a career because one is done and the other just starting. Point is that an inspirational leader who built company in his vision stepping down from CEO can have unspecified results. At point when Apple hired Sculley, they were NOT the juggernaut that they have now become. Best result for Tesla would be someone Musk trusts evolving into operational leadership role, with Musk remaining as visionary, and great chemistry between them. A lot of 'ifs" there. Easy for us to say, yet harder for them to do. And, big question is when. Because, at the point when you start making more finance than vision decisions, it is hard to avoid stifling innovation and losing the innovators.
 
Yes he's a visionary leader like Jobs but that's where the analogy ends. Elon is no Steve Jobs and Tesla is no Apple, not even close. Apple is a huge, sophisticated (and very profitable) global enterprise. I read the comments above to mean that he has taken them a long way but if the goal is to be successful from a business point of view continuing to operate like a start up is not going to work. If Elon steps down from CEO and COB I would hope as the largest shareholder he would continue with his visionary and technical leadership.
By the way, this has nothing to do with being late with a blog post. I really don't see that as a big deal or symptomatic of anything else.

Apple wasn't always the giant it is today, and Tesla's potential is clearer now than Apple's was for most of its existence.

And you're right. Elon is certainly not Steve Jobs. Elon came into this company having already made his fortune and has far more technical chops - though from the sound of it a somewhat similar reality distortion field.

The think different campaign Apple ran a while back really seems to suit both of them.
 
While I hate to use the tired Jobs/Musk analogy, I've got to whip it out here. Remember when Apple needed a "professional" CEO (Sculley) to take over from the inspirational but impetuous Jobs? Then Jobs left, company lost direction, almost went out of business... Until Jobs came back? Careful what you wish for. Most companies either never had or grew past an inspirational 'founder' (I recognize Musk did not found Tesla, but I don't know what other term to use). This company is so much about his vision that if you pull him out, I'm not sure what you have. Maybe Model 3 stablility is the time, but I think the broadened strategy (transport + energy) requires him around a while. For those who love the product who are frustrated because Musk is not conventional... Get used to it!

Agree...but to continue the analogy, Elon needs a Tim Cook, COO, etc. Even his biggest fan would have to agree, he routinely makes statements that show he's a little lost in the C suite. Steve Jobs liked to micromanage details in a way that prevented him from having the time to actually run a company. Elon seems no different. Apple had a board that was responsible for maintaining the company long-term. Tesla currently has no real board. If they did, the board would reject the current situation as irresponsible. I think that is coming. The 'visionary' has a road show to do...lots of interviews, etc. wink, wink.
 
And there is a much longer list of incredible features that Tesla has delivered and then there are amazing features that no one expected that have been delivered. That list also goes on and on...
And I don't for a second deny that. I just think we shouldn't say "always deliver" when they don't. It benefits nobody to have false expectations. Tesla does many great things, but whenever they make a promise, you have to wait and see if they actually will deliver on it. You can't simply expect that they always will as they have proven that that's not always the case.
 
It's leadership vs management.
Once your company is running and delivering a fairly steady stream of products/services with little change, you need management. But a company still growing in it's space needs leadership.

So few companies have both and the trend appears to be more management than leadership these days.
 
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Obviously some of us are 'glass half empty' and some are 'glass half full'. So far EM and Tesla have been spectacular, achieving things that no one would have thought possible a few years ago. They have several very competent people in operations, and their seniour staff seem quite well balanced. Arm chair quarterbacking is easy and most often wrong since it takes a too narrow view with insuffient information.
 
Seeing Tesla compared to Apple so casually makes me cringe every time :(
Sigh.... Me too... I attempted to compare Tesla today to Apple at the time that their board brought in Sculley, decades ago. I guess many here are too young to remember Apple as anything different than it has been for last decade. Agree that they are totally different companies in different businesses, and current-day Tesla to current-day Apple analogy is BS, but I do believe that the specific time and place analogy I posted above is valid. Problem is that people launch from there in all kinds of directions... so I will not make you cringe again.
 
And there is a much longer list of incredible features that Tesla has delivered and then there are amazing features that no one expected that have been delivered. That list also goes on and on...
Agree.

...but there is also the long list of owner-desired (basic) features that are not there, and were not inserted in MX or MS 2016 Refresh that continue to be questioned why they are missing by both prospective and new owners. Maybe some will be in M3, but perhaps not.

I also acknowledge that a start-up business has to be laser-sharp and focused on an objective to just stay alive in the early times, so earlier on I was willing to give more benefit of the doubt because of that. The challenge IMHO is Tesla is emerging from that start-up mode and is now entering a growth phase. As such, there is an absolute need to better balance customer requirements WITH a brand's vision for long term successful customer satisfaction and growth.

I believe many of our own (and that includes me) earlier-adopter, enthusiast, shareholder, and "people that have $100K to drop on a car, or another $20K for completely optional ludicrous mode" opinions here sometimes do not represent reality in regards to what future buyers (that don't frequent forums like TMC) and the masses both want and expect. E.g. we don't always consider as much as we should that as M3 enters the market, sure, having arguably the best technical EV with some wizz-bang features is a big reason to buy Tesla, but owners will also expect:
  • basic creature comforts (think coat hooks, grab handles, more interior storage, etc)
  • capabilities that other similar vehicles have (Infotainment) to just be there the day they take their new toy home
  • reasonable time and cost-to-repair, along with cost of insurance (Tesla has to do something about better parts availability, as well as balance having a 5-star safety rated vehicle for the occupants WITH the post-sale cost to repair it when a fender-bender happens so insurance rates don't continue going up)
IMHO, Elon and Tesla have not yet demonstrated much focus on those sort of things, perhaps in part because Elon himself does not use or care about them in his own daily life and therefore see them as valuable as (future) owners do in even <$20K vehicles, let alone competitive non-EV luxury ones.​

...there are also features that Elon has acknowledged as perhaps being mistakes or over-complicating the design. We know what those are to a large degree so it does not need debating. Tesla is learning which is good, but the question becomes, when one guy is basically in charge from top-to-bottom, will their vision (e.g. think falcon wing doors) and ability to say "do this anyway", loose the BALANCE required to produce acceptable product for the masses longer-term?

...we could also debate that Tesla has been absolutely lax at resolving non-safety/AP firmware bugs, like Service Centers try to manage and resolve physical problems for customers that look Tesla employees in the face. Yes, part of that could be because of the whole start-up discussion, or "software engineers" have at times been a constrained resource ...but, not all software engineers have to be perhaps the caliber that can architect AP -- others could be focused on fixing bugs and showing constant improvement to the fleet in littler ways that make a difference to how satisfied one is with their driving experience. I suggest in a vehicle like our Tesla that is touted as being software controlled unlike any other, and which has a complete OTA capability to distribute fixes to the fleet, Elon and Tesla have not done a good job treating more pervasive firmware bug resolution with the same intensity they do hardware. It's a shame, because as an owner, I expect failures with my vehicle to be resolved -- be that hardware or software related. Period. IMHO, firmware fixes have not been worked-on to-date because Elon does not see them as important, even if his customers do.

Leadership

I doubt most of us here will question Elon's vision and ability to get something earth-changing done. I sure don't. What I will suggest from my own personal experience working with and for many different sorts of Executives in my life, is that visionaries that can successfully start a business, may be the same ones that can right a sinking ship by redesigning a business model, but for the most part the executives that have either of those abilities don't have the skill to operationalize, sustain and grow a business. It takes a rare individual that can do all of that and acknowledge their own weaknesses, then surround themselves with key leaders who are fully delegated and entrusted with complimentary responsibilities for a business to grow with some sort of checks and balances on one another that balance out what needs to be done -- vision with profitable growth.

People have been using the Apple analogies -- well, think of Jobs who entrusted Cook and others as key operational leaders but stayed clearly in the middle of the big decisions, and during Jobs time a lot of new product innovation was started or restarted ...and Cook now in the CEO role who acknowledges he can't do it all, surrounds himself with the leaders he has and that we regularly see communicating on Apple's behalf -- while Apple has seen exponential growth in their business the last several years, but perhaps lately not the same sort of innovation in the early days of Jobs... although there are rumors of what may come some day. See the connection with my generalization on leadership qualities and where a business is in it's lifecycle?

I'm not sure where I put both Elon and Tesla in all that today. As I said, I think there is the beginning of a business transition going on, or that needs to happen within Tesla. I have read Vance's book, know who appears to be the single voice for Tesla these days, and have my impressions of what is working and what could be improved from an owner's POV. As an entrepreneur who has the financial means and percent of ownership he does, Elon personally chooses to lead multiple businesses. That's fine by me, but only if he makes commitments to his shareholders and product owners that he can meet. Excuses just don't count any more as Tesla enters it's teenage years and is growing up.
 
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While I hate to use the tired Jobs/Musk analogy, I've got to whip it out here. Remember when Apple needed a "professional" CEO (Sculley) to take over from the inspirational but impetuous Jobs? Then Jobs left, company lost direction, almost went out of business... Until Jobs came back? Careful what you wish for. Most companies either never had or grew past an inspirational 'founder' (I recognize Musk did not found Tesla, but I don't know what other term to use). This company is so much about his vision that if you pull him out, I'm not sure what you have. Maybe Model 3 stablility is the time, but I think the broadened strategy (transport + energy) requires him around a while. For those who love the product who are frustrated because Musk is not conventional... Get used to it!
I was there and Jobs did need a "professional". Sculley unfortunately was in the Jobs mold of being a good leader, and a lousy manager.

The difference when Jobs came back and created the Apple we know today is that he hired Tim Cook who is an outstanding manager and a pretty good leader. Elon needs a Tim Cook type COO that can execute.
 
I was there and Jobs did need a "professional". Sculley unfortunately was in the Jobs mold of being a good leader, and a lousy manager.

The difference when Jobs came back and created the Apple we know today is that he hired Tim Cook who is an outstanding manager and a pretty good leader. Elon needs a Tim Cook type COO that can execute.
Yep, I think he learned a lot from Next. Hopefully Musk can learn that without a failure.
 
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The problem is that professional management tends to stifle innovation. Tesla is still small and needs to continue to innovate to stay ahead of the pack. Of course there is a risk of getting too far out on a limb (which they have arguably done a few times) but the greatest risk is in becoming too conservative.
In five years Tesla and Elon could be ready for professional management to take over and become more like Apple is today (profitable but not particularly innovative).
 
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I'm happy for all you spotify adherents. I'd just like to be able to turn the media OFF so it stays off. Every time I open the door to get in, I reach over to the steering and push the sound off. I want to listen to it on MY schedule, not whenever I get in the car.

I know, I know. What does "OFF" mean?

Also, Nav. What a pain. I just got back from a little jaunt to LA, and I got off track a half dozen times (with only 30 miles of charge, looking for the SC!) and got misdirected many times. It becomes de rigueur to look at the map, decide how to get there, and let the Nav re route. 8.0 downloads tonight, so I'll get to check it out tomorrow.

Without discounting your user requirement (the a/c works this way, so why not the media player?), why not just turn the volume down whenever you want it off -- the volume doesn't automatically come back up.
 
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I just press the left scroll wheel to mute. It stays muted. So I'm confused as well. Mute/off, same difference.
Quite off topic for this thread, however the whole point is that it doesn't always stay muted. Most often it will be when you return to the vehicle that it will decide to unmute itself, however this past week I did have it happen while driving as well (when I lost and regained cell coverage). But sometimes it really does stay muted. It's rather random which makes it even worse.
 
Without discounting your user requirement (the a/c works this way, so why not the media player?), why not just turn the volume down whenever you want it off -- the volume doesn't automatically come back up.

I also want a "sticky" OFF so Media Player does not come back on when I get back into my MS if I had set it that way before I exit. Mute may be a workaround in some situations, but it's more intuitive to any driver to just have "OFF means OFF" as practically every other device we interact with every day in our life does. Similarly, if I leave something like Media Player or HVAC ON when I exit, I'm thankful for it to be ON again when I enter.

I just press the left scroll wheel to mute. It stays muted. So I'm confused as well. Mute/off, same difference.
Ah, that's a good workaround for streaming and radio sources, but it's a big FAIL with USB that some of us prefer to use most of the time. MS keeps playing USB sources if you only mute, so you have lost your place in the track/playlist/album when you un-mute; You can't always listen to longer podcasts and audiobooks because you can't simply resume where you left off once you exit the car if you mute or pause; and the infamous USB Phantom Playing bug (since 6.2) can still happen if you only mute or pause (vs switch sources or remove the USB stick altogether, when you will still loose your place) and adds 2-3 miles/day on top of normal vampire loss. Tesla providing a real Media Player OFF is so simple it would not require much of an explanation what it does, and could solve so much. ;)