Ford will add NACS to next gen EVs!

Next gen Ford EVs will include NACS port. Also will have a NACS to CCS adapter for existing Ford EVs and will be made compatible with Tesla Superchargers via software update.

Honestly never thought any other automaker would take up NACS so this is very surprising.

https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2023/05/25/ford-ev-customers-to-gain-access-to-12-000-tesla-superchargers--.html

Moderator note: The first couple pages of this thread are a merge of two different threads on the same topic.

 

[E90alex]

...but then other automakers (other than Ford) wouldn't pay for access to the Supercharger

Why would they have to? Tesla charges non-Tesla cars an extra 10 cents per kWh or a 12.99 monthly access subscription. They do so similarly in Europe where some Superchargers are open to anyone.

If they produce an adapter that allows any CCS1 vehicle to charge and handle the authentication and billing themselves, that can potentially be 10s of millions of dollars annually depending how many CCS cars charge. And that’s without any significant capital investment on Teslas part (eg installing Magic Dock on more chargers).

It’s in Teslas best interest to open up the network more. Maybe not right this second, but certainly in the future. Tesla cannot hold their market position forever and CCS cars will outnumber Teslas at some point (unless other automakers implement NACS connector too). Tesla is probably the only one making fast charging profitable and as more people transition to EVs, Tesla stands to profit from non-Teslas too through charging.

 

[jsmay311]

Ok, wow. But, thoughts…

(These touch on some topics already raised in previous comments, but I think they deserve more focus.)

1. Charge port locations: Ford’s charge ports are located on the left side just in front of the driver’s door. I read on a Ford Mach-E forum that the charge port is 47” from the front of the car. With V3 Supercharger cables being ~6 feet long, I’m thinking they’d be long enough to reach if the Mach-E pulled in nose first. But then they’d effectively be blocking 2 stalls since they’d be using the plug on the left side of the parking space whereas Teslas reverse in and use the plug on the right side of the parking space*. That is, unless the “Tesla designed adapter” has a pretty long cable attached to it, but that seems unlikely to me for some reason. (And enforcing Ford owners to reverse in seems like it would be a losing battle.)
2. 2025 Ford EVs to get only NACS ports??? The announcement says that starting in 2025, Ford’s EVs will get a built-in NACS port, eliminating the need for a Tesla adapter. What it doesn’t explicitly say is that they will eliminate the CCS port rather than have dual ports. Given that the number of CCS charger locations in the US is poised to expand significantly with all the IRA money now available, it seems a bit odd for Ford to ditch CCS altogether at this time. A CCS-to-NACS adapter could obviously address this, but it still makes me wonder.

*I’m ignoring here the few Supercharger stalls that have the pedestal located on the side of the parking space. Those might reach the Ford’s charge port, although it might require not pulling all the way into the parking space when the pedestal is on the left side. When it’s on the right side, I’m not as confident if it would reach since the Ford would only be able to back in so far before hitting the curb.

 

[Rocky_H]

I haven't seen someone add the article from Green Car Reports yet, which has a really nice explanation of this. I think Teslarati had one too, but it was pretty confusing wording.

Ford adopts Tesla charge port for future EVs, Supercharger access soon

Say farewell to CCS in Ford EVs. Next-generation models will have the familiar Tesla port built in, with charging at Tesla Supercharger stations requiring no adapter.

www.greencarreports.com

 

[youlikeadajuice]

Also CCS has 800v support whereas Tesla does not right now.

Then again Ford charging speeds are trash and they probably won't have 800v architecture any time soon.

This. As a former Tesla owner, I think NACS is superior in reliability and design (and number of stations, currently). But as a current Ioniq 5 owner, CCS seems more capable since it offers 880v architecture. Charging the Ioniq 5 on the supercharger network would be quite a bit slower, although nice in a pinch.

 

[kilpatds]

NACS has a 1kV option/alternative. What it doesn't have yet for that is an existence-proof.

 

[TheHippo]

Why would they have to? Tesla charges non-Tesla cars an extra 10 cents per kWh or a 12.99 monthly access subscription. They do so similarly in Europe where some Superchargers are open to anyone.

If they produce an adapter that allows any CCS1 vehicle to charge and handle the authentication and billing themselves, that can potentially be 10s of millions of dollars annually depending how many CCS cars charge. And that’s without any significant capital investment on Teslas part (eg installing Magic Dock on more chargers).

It’s in Teslas best interest to open up the network more. Maybe not right this second, but certainly in the future. Tesla cannot hold their market position forever and CCS cars will outnumber Teslas at some point (unless other automakers implement NACS connector too). Tesla is probably the only one making fast charging profitable and as more people transition to EVs, Tesla stands to profit from non-Teslas too through charging.

Notice what that the announcement said: Ford EV drivers gaining access to the Supercharger network.

Notice what the announcement does not say: the Supercharger network is available for any EV driver to charge anywhere.

 

[terranx]

NACS has a 1kV option/alternative. What it doesn't have yet for that is an existence-proof.

I was under the impression that the V4 units can do 1kV?

 

[MP3Mike]

I was under the impression that the V4 units can do 1kV?

There are no V4 chargers in existence yet, at least that we are aware of. There are V4 posts that are rated to 1k volts. (The one V3.5 site in Europe has V4 posts hooked to V3 chargers.)

 

[Apprunner]

Nice interview with Ford CEO who clarifies what they are planning. Ford EVs will come with NACS and be able to charge at CCS with adapters.

 

[Whatstreet]

V4 will be over 800V and will be available when Tesla has cars that need V4 support.

 

[Whatstreet]

Nice interview with Ford CEO who clarifies what they are planning. Ford EVs will come with NACS and be able to charge at CCS with adapters.

Lets see what GM does about this.

 

[Whatstreet]

After a bit more thought, they might as well allow Ford to use their connector as they already have been given access to Supercharges with that adapter thing. But only at some locations which might have been a point of discussion with the government.

 

[Whatstreet]

Ok, wow. But, thoughts…

(These touch on some topics already raised in previous comments, but I think they deserve more focus.)

1. Charge port locations: Ford’s charge ports are located on the left side just in front of the driver’s door. I read on a Ford Mach-E forum that the charge port is 47” from the front of the car. With V3 Supercharger cables being ~6 feet long, I’m thinking they’d be long enough to reach if the Mach-E pulled in nose first. But then they’d effectively be blocking 2 stalls since they’d be using the plug on the left side of the parking space whereas Teslas reverse in and use the plug on the right side of the parking space*. That is, unless the “Tesla designed adapter” has a pretty long cable attached to it, but that seems unlikely to me for some reason. (And enforcing Ford owners to reverse in seems like it would be a losing battle.)
2. 2025 Ford EVs to get only NACS ports??? The announcement says that starting in 2025, Ford’s EVs will get a built-in NACS port, eliminating the need for a Tesla adapter. What it doesn’t explicitly say is that they will eliminate the CCS port rather than have dual ports. Given that the number of CCS charger locations in the US is poised to expand significantly with all the IRA money now available, it seems a bit odd for Ford to ditch CCS altogether at this time. A CCS-to-NACS adapter could obviously address this, but it still makes me wonder.

*I’m ignoring here the few Supercharger stalls that have the pedestal located on the side of the parking space. Those might reach the Ford’s charge port, although it might require not pulling all the way into the parking space when the pedestal is on the left side. When it’s on the right side, I’m not as confident if it would reach since the Ford would only be able to back in so far before hitting the curb.

Ford might as well eliminate CCS connectors because they really don't have much to offer over NACS. NACS will support higher voltage going forward and higher voltage only helps, really. If the dielectric is adequate, and it is, then the current will decrease for a given wattage as voltage is increased, so all the better.

 

[cdswm3]

Lets see what GM does about this.

GM will just say they will sell more EV's than anyone else and then sell very few. GM is a joke in EV's.

 

[jsmay311]

I haven't seen someone add the article from Green Car Reports yet, which has a really nice explanation of this. I think Teslarati had one too, but it was pretty confusing wording.

Ford adopts Tesla charge port for future EVs, Supercharger access soon

Say farewell to CCS in Ford EVs. Next-generation models will have the familiar Tesla port built in, with charging at Tesla Supercharger stations requiring no adapter.

www.greencarreports.com

Thanks for sharing this.

“As new Ford EVs are introduced, it will be abandoning the CCS standard in the U.S. completely. When asked whether next-generation Ford EVs will have the CCS port, Ford replied to Green Car Reports: ‘Gen 2 EVs with the NACS port will have the option of charging at CCS chargers via an adapter.’
[…]
‘We’re totally committed to the NACS interface itself going forward,’ said Farley, on a Twitter Spaces event with Musk that served as the reveal stage for the announcement.“

Bold move for sure. I wonder if any other automakers will follow suit.

I suppose any automaker using 800V batteries wouldn’t go this route since existing Superchargers can’t go that high and it’ll be a long while before 1000V V4 superchargers are widespread. That will rule out a decent number of companies.

 

[Eto Demerzel]

I am not sure what is "old" about CCS.

CCS will continue to be used by automakers who don't want to pay Tesla to use the Supercharger.

Ford isn't paying Tesla
NACS is a standard Tesla wants mass adoption.

Remember - Tesla is required to have CCS charging at their Supercharger stations. This is a federal requirement Tesla agreed to.
But those magic docks will be limited. They won't be on every station.

Ford using NACS is strategic.

And yes, CCS is dogshit. 800W? You might as well say 2.5gigawatts. If that crappy, unsecure MS Windows jukebox actually connects with your phone and you can get it to actually pay or charge, than great.
There is no standardization.
EA, Chargeplus, bunghole chargeworld...whatever - having 10 apps with 10 different CCS charger systems and maybe get something that works...

NACS allows Ford a huge upgrade in charging access and especially for domestic, new ev customers - the absolute ease of Tesla's Supercharging network is one of those things you never want to lose once you have it.

 

[MP3Mike]

Ford isn't paying Tesla
NACS is a standard Tesla wants mass adoption.

You don't know they aren't paying... But NACS and Supercharging access are two completely different things. You can have either without the other.

Remember - Tesla is required to have CCS charging at their Supercharger stations. This is a federal requirement Tesla agreed to.

No, they don't and no they didn't. The closest thing is that Tesla announced, via a white house press release, that they would be opening at least 3,500 stalls by the end of 2024. About 10% of the network. That is all about MagicDock.

 

[SageBrush]

NACS will support higher voltage going forward and higher voltage only helps, really.

800V cars that get crappy charging rates on the legacy 500V network beg to differ

 

[Eto Demerzel]

Ford isn't paying Tesla
NACS is a standard Tesla wants mass adoption.

Remember - Tesla is required to have CCS charging at their Supercharger stations. This is a federal requirement Tesla agreed to.
But those magic docks will be limited. They won't be on every station.



NACS allows Ford a huge upgrade in charging access and especially for domestic, new ev customers - the absolute ease of Tesla's Supercharging network is one of those things you never want to lose once you have it.

You don't know they aren't paying... But NACS and Supercharging access are two completely different things. You can have either without the other.

No, they don't and they didn't. The closest thing is that Tesla announced, via a white house press release, that they would be opening at least 3,500 stalls by the end of 2024. About 10% of the network. That is all about MagicDock.

That's what I said

Elon Musk, Tesla’s chief executive, promised to provide 7,500 open-access chargers in the U.S. by the end of 2024, according to Biden administration officials. Taxpayer dollars will pay for the conversion of existing Tesla chargers or the construction of new ones to accommodate cars built by Ford, GM, Hyundai, Kia, Volvo, Volkswagen and other electric car makers.

The Tesla deal is part of the Biden administration’s $7.5-billion plan to fund 500,000 EV chargers throughout the U.S., mostly along major highways at 50-mile intervals. The spending was approved by Congress in 2021.

According to US government, make at least 7,500 of its Superchargers and Destination Chargers “available to all electric vehicles” by the end of 2024, including at least 3,500 Superchargers with 250 kilowatts of power. Tesla plans to more than double its Supercharger network in the US by the end of 2024, which it can now do with funding from Washington.

 

[deskchair]

I know this is US based at the moment, but a huge deciding factor for me in getting my Tesla was the queues at the non Tesla stalls. Quite often when I go public charging there are spaces at Tesla but no free spaces at the other chargers. we are getting another EV soon and if they open all the uk Tesla charging network to non teslas it wont be a Tesla.