Frustrated with FSD timeline

[Sir Guacamolaf]

Seasoned Tesla owners know not to take Elon's word on face value. Even AP1 users are waiting for a few of the touted promised features, which we may never get (car will drive to you on private property?). AP2 owners are finding out this the hard way.

While I waited for almost a year for AP1 to be delivered, last night, I had an ice cream while my car drove itself on the freeway. Totally worth the wait.

Elon should really learn not to over promise and not deliver. It creates short term sales, but long term bad blood. This will eventually catch up to him as Tesla exits niche and becomes mainstream.

And I am sorry to say, AP1 parity ~ probably December this year. FSD ~ keep dreaming, 2 years, 4 years?! I still have my doubts on the true value of FSD when fully realized. If you still need to pay attention to the road, it really doesn't add much value IMO.

 

[P85DBeast]

I dont know how many time's I need to say this.. But everyone knew that FSD features were not going to be available 4 to 5 month after it was released to the design studio. And the people that continue to complain about it not being ready should NOT have ordered it when they bought their car. I ordered it on my car because I don't mind waiting for the features to continuously roll out. And if you don't like waiting don't order it and you won't be mad when you are being "Promised" FSD features that don't come out in the next update. And that would be less people asking for refunds (Which isn't going to happen). Maybe some people should stop being so impatient. Don't know how you held out if your delivery date got pushed back.

You should all know by now when Elon promises a date you should at least give it 1 year before we actually even see it.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I dont know how many time's I need to say this.. But everyone knew that FSD features were not going to be available 4 to 5 month after it was released to the design studio. And the people that continue to complain about it not being ready should NOT have ordered it when they bought their car. I ordered it on my car because I don't mind waiting for the features to continuously roll out. And if you don't like waiting don't order it and you won't be mad when you are being "Promised" FSD features that don't come out in the next update. And that would be less people asking for refunds (Which isn't going to happen). Maybe some people should stop being so impatient. Don't know how you held out if your delivery date got pushed back.

What we did not know, though, was that EAP would not appear in December 2016. Or not appear in Q1/2017 either.

What was thought to be four-camera EAP in December 2016 (or maybe a little late), quickly morphed into hoping only for AP1 parity - very different from EAP as it was described in the Design Studio which noted a December 2016 date - sometime in H1/2017 - again, very different from December 2016 too...

People may forget, but Tesla's Design Studio did promote four-cameras active, auto lane-changing EAP, available in December 2016, for those who ordered in November 2016.

That was, it turns out, not quite factual information.

 

[P85DBeast]

What we did not know, though, was that EAP would not appear in December 2016. Or not appear in Q1/2017 either.

What was thought to be four-camera EAP in December 2016 (or maybe a little late), quickly morphed into hoping only for AP1 parity - very different from EAP as it was described in the Design Studio which noted a December 2016 date - sometime in H1/2017 - again, very different from December 2016 too...

People may forget, but Tesla's Design Studio did promote four-cameras active, auto lane-changing EAP, available in December 2016, for those who ordered in November 2016.

That was, it turns out, not quite factual information.

Elon does need to be a little more "Realistic" with his date's on releases of feature's and new products.

 

[Black/Black MS]

If I paid for AP 2 I'd be ready to start up a class action lawsuit over this. Elon's lies have gotten out of control. I made a conscious decision to settle for an AP1 model at a huge discount just before AP2 came out, but I'm feeling more and more like I dodged a bullet.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

This is what we were sold... not AP1 parity... but four camera, auto lane-changing EAP in December 2016:

Enhanced Autopilot adds new capabilities to the Tesla Autopilot driving experience... four cameras for greater accuracy... automatically change lanes without requiring driver input...

Tesla's Enhanced Autopilot software is expected to complete validation and be rolled out to your car via an over-the-air update in December 2016, subject to regulatory approval.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Elon does need to be a little more "Realistic" with his date's on releases of feature's and new products.

I agree. Though in the case of EAP, it was not just Elon out of control, but Tesla itself through their Design Studio.

They did change the EAP wording later.

 

[boaterva]

Good grief. A straight-forward reading of the tweet (no matter how much literal faith you want to put in it or not...) says 'definitely 6 months'. That is the end of July. All he needs to do is have the code track for FSD (which has to be separate since it's a separate option) have *something* enabled by then.

As I keep reminding people, 'FSD' has a lot of pieces besides full level 5. i would assume (since it actually says so on the option webpage!) that the other code track is working with the four side cameras to add a feature that only they use. Automatic lane change? No clue.

But to complain about it at the beginning of the 'maybe 3 months, definitely 6' timeframe makes little sense to me.

 

[Bladerskb]

You are wrong on so many fronts it isn't even funny. He did not say that any FSD features would be available in 3 months. He said that they would start to appear in maybe 3 months. And there is no reason they couldn't put out a FSD feature before EAP is feature complete.

On the other hand his statement makes the 6 month mark a little more firm, so come back in 3 more months and see where things are at.

Where do you see start to appear on that statement?
You see how you totally twist statements to feed into your warped logic?

What part of "At what point will "Full Self driving capability features NOTICABLY depart from EAP features" doesn't mean FSD features wouldn't be available in the said timeframe?

That's trump level spin you are going for right now. There is no start to appear. There is NOTICEABLY DEPART aka significantly depart.

Its like saying at what point will the title President Trump noticeably depart from President-Elect.

There is no starting to appear, there's either FSD features in cars or there is not.

 

[Sir Guacamolaf]

Here is a legal question.

Lets say Tesla sells you something, based on something on their website.
Now you have zero control on their website, and after the sale, Tesla unilaterally without informing you, updates the website.
Can this website be considered "legally binding"? Is it part of your sales contract especially if the sales contract never refers to or mentions the website?

Note that Tesla uses this technique not just for sales, but also services, and extended warranties.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Good grief. A straight-forward reading of the tweet (no matter how much literal faith you want to put in it or not...) says 'definitely 6 months'. That is the end of July. All he needs to do is have the code track for FSD (which has to be separate since it's a separate option) have *something* enabled by then.

As I keep reminding people, 'FSD' has a lot of pieces besides full level 5. i would assume (since it actually says so on the option webpage!) that the other code track is working with the four side cameras to add a feature that only they use. Automatic lane change? No clue.

But to complain about it at the beginning of the 'maybe 3 months, definitely 6' timeframe makes little sense to me.

It can not be automatic lane change, that is an EAP feature that we were told is expected for December 2016.

Look, I think a lot more people would be willing to give Elon more leeway if wasn't so known for his "optimistic" schedules, like 8.1 update (the kernel/browser update still not out) released in one week's time in December 2016. "Elon time" is already legendary, but IMO it is becoming more and more merely a liability.

It is so unnecessary too. Tesla is achieving great things, why disrupt that by such short-sighted tactics.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

I have reported this thread title to the moderators for being misleading. You are quoting Musk as having said something he never said. What appears inside quotes is YOUR extrapolated timeline, not something Musk actually said.

 

[oktane]

I dont know how many time's I need to say this.. But everyone knew that FSD features were not going to be available 4 to 5 month after it was released to the design studio.

How did everyone know this? Are we all mind readers? Did Tesla make anyone sign a disclosure stating this? Wasn't there a video showing FSD in action fully hands free, from driveway to parking lot? Didn't Elon say a car would drive coast-to-coast totally independently by end of 2017?

No one knew what you are claiming, and Elon is genius but a pathological liar. Tesla is a morally corrupt company. The autopilot scam is just a small portion of their questionable ethics and lies. This will bite them in court.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Here is a legal question.

Lets say Tesla sells you something, based on something on their website.
Now you have zero control on their website, and after the sale, Tesla unilaterally without informing you, updates the website.
Can this website be considered "legally binding"? Is it part of your sales contract especially if the sales contract never refers to or mentions the website?

Note that Tesla uses this technique not just for sales, but also services, and extended warranties.

Interesting question, I'd certainly like to hear views.

An opinion:

Considering that Design Studio marketed EAP as expected to be available in December 2016, which later events have shown that to have been false or at least misleading information (it was nowhere near being ready in December 2016 in the form advertised), and all Tesla's are ordered through that very same Design Studio, certainly it would seem to me a case could be made.

But IMO that is completely beside the point for most people. Most people are probably not looking for a fight or a remedy, they'd just prefer Tesla and Elon clean up this part of their act. It is so unfortunate and unnecessary.

 

[Bladerskb]

This is what we were sold... not AP1 parity... but four camera, auto lane-changing EAP in December 2016:

Enhanced Autopilot adds new capabilities to the Tesla Autopilot driving experience... four cameras for greater accuracy... automatically change lanes without requiring driver input...

Tesla's Enhanced Autopilot software is expected to complete validation and be rolled out to your car via an over-the-air update in December 2016, subject to regulatory approval.

I have pointed this out time and time again. They won't listen.
Not only that, Elon said in his press conference (in October) that in 2-3 months. AP2 cars will be far better than AP1.

So not only do we have it in writing, we have it spoken that EAP specific features will be released at December (4 cameras, autosteer+, self lane change, smart summon, self park, onramp/offramp)

So what's the conclusion? Elon lied to sell cars, stocks and eap/fsd options.
we were bamboozled. Yet I get discredited up in this forum for speaking the truth and people defend his antics.

 

[boaterva]

It can not be automatic lane change, that is an EAP feature that we were told is expected for December 2016.

Look, I think a lot more people would be willing to give Elon more leeway if wasn't so known for his "optimistic" schedules, like 8.1 update (the kernel/browser update still not out) released in one week's time in December 2016. "Elon time" is already legendary, but IMO it is becoming more and more merely a liability.

It is so unnecessary too. Tesla is achieving great things, why disrupt that by such short-sighted tactics.

Based on what's on the website now, that's correct. Looks like it may (FSD 'feature') have something to do with handling red lights, stop signs, etc. I can't believe it would be point to point drop off, etc.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Here is a legal question.

Lets say Tesla sells you something, based on something on their website.
Now you have zero control on their website, and after the sale, Tesla unilaterally without informing you, updates the website.
Can this website be considered "legally binding"? Is it part of your sales contract especially if the sales contract never refers to or mentions the website?

Note that Tesla uses this technique not just for sales, but also services, and extended warranties.

I think you would have to prove that Tesla violated some false or misleading advertisement law. Generally speaking, advertisements are not considered to be contractually binding. They are considered to be offers to enter into a binding contract, but it is your binding contract that prevails in such an instance. Did your MVPA state anything with regard to this feature and when it would be delivered? Does the Monroney sticker mention the feature without qualification? Seems like a heavy lift to tackle Tesla based on its web site representations, but then again I'm not an attorney.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I think you would have to prove that Tesla violated some false or misleading advertisement law. Generally speaking, advertisements are not considered to be contractually binding. They are considered to be offers to enter into a binding contract, but it is your binding contract that prevails in such an instance. Did your MVPA state anything with regard to this feature and when it would be delivered? Does the Monroney sticker mention the feature without qualification? Seems like a heavy lift to tackle Tesla based on its web site representations, but then again I'm not an attorney.

This was not an advertisement, though.

It was a priced option description people ordering EAP Teslas in Design Studio clicked as part of their order process.

This is what those people clicked:

 

[MP3Mike]

What part of "At what point will "Full Self driving capability features NOTICABLY depart from EAP features" doesn't mean FSD features wouldn't be available in the said timeframe?

It is the same thing. If they release the ability to detect stop signs for FSD cars, the FSD features have started to appear, and FSD has noticeably departed from EAP.

 

[MP3Mike]

People may forget, but Tesla's Design Studio did promote four-cameras active, auto lane-changing EAP, available in December 2016, for those who ordered in November 2016.

No it didn't. It said they were expected to be available in December. Expected is not a guarantee, in fact by using that word you should have known that there was a good possibility that EAP wouldn't be available by then.