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FSD’s earliest adopters find themselves again deprioritized and forgotten

Lowchrg

Beta Blue-balled
Oct 1, 2021
135
393
Irvine, CA
Cue the post about the guy whining that he didn’t get FSD Beta /sarcasm

As some of you may or may not know, the FSD Beta has been continuing to roll out to all Tesla vehicle types with FSD and 100 scores now including refresh S EXCEPT for the following vehicles:

- July 2017 and earlier build date Model S w/ AP2.0 hardware at delivery
- July 2017 and earlier build date Model X w/ AP2.0 hardware at delivery

These vehicles also featured MCU1 at delivery, however Tesla provides an official upgrade pathway to MCU2 and recommends this. For that reason I’m not going to speak on the MCU requirements for FSD Beta and other undelivered features for MCU1 cars but more about the AP2.0 hardware (cameras, radar, redundant electronics?) that was advertised as fully capable of FSD with no upgrade pathway to AP2.5. This is further corroborated by gaining access to the safety score on these vehicles. MCU1 was excluded from the “button” software entirely. MCU2 upgraded and FSD enabled July 2017 and earlier AP2.0 cars got the button and have been working on their scores for going on close to a month now.

There are currently many post-July 2017 AP2.5 S and X with FSD Beta access that upgraded from MCU1 to MCU2 so this confirms the current stipulation to the rollout is specifically AP2.0 hardware and NOT that MCU1 was in the vehicle at time of delivery.

To my knowledge, at this time there is ZERO of the earliest AP2.0 FSD adopting vehicles with the beta access regardless of following all the rules and upgrades that Tesla recommends to stay up to date. I stuck it out and was very excited to finally see something come to fruition after 4 years of waiting on my “investment” but now I’m feeling even more slighted than ever that I may never see FSD during my ownership.

I hope that they’re working on this for 10.3 next Friday and that this post becomes complete irrelevant and I’m a moron but I felt it was necessary to bring attention to this and hope I don’t get slammed too hard. Tesla’s treatment of early adopters who helped get them where they are has been disheartening to say the least. I fully admit I am a bit salty when I see someone who subscribed last month for $199 and got beta access when some have paid tens of thousands for FSD and MCU2 upgrades years ago with almost nothing to show for it at this point.

Thank you for coming to my rant
 

KArnold

Member
May 21, 2017
752
806
Columbus OH
I'm with you in the club.

Honestly I'd feel better if he just said "screw you, I don't care about my base customers and won't allow an upgrade path" instead of this silent treatment. Is he just playing games with the folks who supported the company through the "darkest times"? (his words, not mine) Or is that one sentence not worth his tweet time?

Or is there hope somewhere down the road? Maybe in 10.2? Some other future releases? Heck, it's easier to tell when China is going to attack Taiwan than it is getting those answers. :rolleyes:

I guess regardless, I would not have thought it possible but I'm losing more respect for both the man and the company regardless of the answer.
 
S

Saabstory88

Guest
I'm with you in the club.

Honestly I'd feel better if he just said "screw you, I don't care about my base customers and won't allow an upgrade path" instead of this silent treatment. Is he just playing games with the folks who supported the company through the "darkest times"? (his words, not mine) Or is that one sentence not worth his tweet time?

Or is there hope somewhere down the road? Maybe in 10.2? Some other future releases? Heck, it's easier to tell when China is going to attack Taiwan than it is getting those answers. :rolleyes:

I guess regardless, I would not have thought it possible but I'm losing more respect for both the man and the company regardless of the answer.
The issue is that there is no one in the company paid to think about such things, therefore it doesn't get done. Hardware and software march on and it's likely that only legal action will remind them of their previous commitments. I don't even expect them to fight such claims en masse, it's just that these means are not ignorable like tweets are. It's not like anyone inside the company thinks "screw these guys they aren't getting it", it's that, among the people who could actually affect these processes, they are so focused on the next deadline that there is no other room.

There's no one to even rail against, these problems are just not on the peoples minds who matter, and there is no mechanism to reach them.
 

Lowchrg

Beta Blue-balled
Oct 1, 2021
135
393
Irvine, CA
The issue is that there is no one in the company paid to think about such things, therefore it doesn't get done. Hardware and software march on and it's likely that only legal action will remind them of their previous commitments. I don't even expect them to fight such claims en masse, it's just that these means are not ignorable like tweets are. It's not like anyone inside the company thinks "screw these guys they aren't getting it", it's that, among the people who could actually affect these processes, they are so focused on the next deadline that there is no other room.

There's no one to even rail against, these problems are just not on the peoples minds who matter, and there is no mechanism to reach them.

Trying my very hardest to get word around on this and make more prominent news sources and influencers aware of it. It seems the only way Tesla will do something is 1) litigation as you stated and 2) a news article / influencer speaking out.

I feel like I’m screaming at a wall.
 

cericsmith

Member
Sep 5, 2017
8
44
Austin, TX
Trying my very hardest to get word around on this and make more prominent news sources and influencers aware of it. It seems the only way Tesla will do something is 1) litigation as you stated and 2) a news article / influencer speaking out.

I feel like I’m screaming at a wall.
Add me in...

I'm lividly pissed off... I've spent a lot of time and money making sure that my car would be first in line. I purchased FSD during the dark days per MCU1 upgrade path. I spent $2500 to upgrade to MCU2 at the same time that the HW3 computers were made available and did both upgrades, SPECIFICALLY because it was clear that MCU1 was a dead end for FSD (visualizations, etc.). I drove 750+ miles @ 100 Safety Score (now north of 1150 miles).

All along the way, Tesla has indicated that this is a supported path... and now, crickets. It's beyond impossible that this isn't a known issue internally at this point. We need to know what's going on here if -- for no other reason-- so we can go back to normal releases and drop the endless pursuit of 100 scores and not checking this forum compulsively until we hear otherwise! This uncertainty damages the value of our cars both in our own eyes, and in the mind of potential buyers!
 

Lowchrg

Beta Blue-balled
Oct 1, 2021
135
393
Irvine, CA
All along the way, Tesla has indicated that this is a supported path... and now, crickets. It's beyond impossible that this isn't a known issue internally at this point. We need to know what's going on here if -- for no other reason-- so we can go back to normal releases and drop the endless pursuit of 100 scores and not checking this forum compulsively until we hear otherwise! This uncertainty damages the value of our cars both in our own eyes, and in the mind of potential buyers!

Some transparency and communication would really be great but that’s not in their best interest so why bother.

I would love to have some closure on whether it’s possible for us to get it or if we should opt out as to continue getting new firmware releases and not stressing over this silly score any further.

The masses got their FSD and I hope we are not far behind. Almost a month of safety score driving at 100 has been rough.
 

gearchruncher

Active Member
Sep 20, 2016
2,528
3,342
Seattle, WA
As the Tesla supporters will tell you here:

1) FSD is early access. Tesla owes you nothing. Stop whining. This is what happens to early adopters, what did you expect? Apparently you can't handle it, maybe you should go back to 2016 and not buy your car.

2) I dare you to sue.

As a skeptic....
Sue in small claims, or take them to arbitration. Start it now. It's basically free, but it takes time, and there really is no downside to starting it.

You have a single thing to prove here. They sold you a car with the statement "All Tesla vehicles produced in our factory, including Model 3, have the hardware needed for full self-driving capability at a safety level substantially greater than that of a human driver." That is a fact. It appears that your car is not, as they have (finally) released FSD, and it's on all cars except ones with specific HW, so clearly that HW is not capable. Tesla is helpfully calling this "Full Self Driving Capability" not "City Streets Autosteer" which makes it really easy to show your car did not have FSD capability in HW.

The real question is what you want to define as damages... The cost of FSD? The cost of new cameras? The cost of the whole car?
 
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Nosken

Member
Jan 15, 2015
878
777
Lincoln, CA
Add me in...

I'm lividly pissed off... I've spent a lot of time and money making sure that my car would be first in line. I purchased FSD during the dark days per MCU1 upgrade path. I spent $2500 to upgrade to MCU2 at the same time that the HW3 computers were made available and did both upgrades, SPECIFICALLY because it was clear that MCU1 was a dead end for FSD (visualizations, etc.). I drove 750+ miles @ 100 Safety Score (now north of 1150 miles).

All along the way, Tesla has indicated that this is a supported path... and now, crickets. It's beyond impossible that this isn't a known issue internally at this point. We need to know what's going on here if -- for no other reason-- so we can go back to normal releases and drop the endless pursuit of 100 scores and not checking this forum compulsively until we hear otherwise! This uncertainty damages the value of our cars both in our own eyes, and in the mind of potential buyers!
....and then they dropped the MCU2 to $1500, and denied EMMC claims. Us early adopters should not be the ones carrying the heaviest financial burden, then further "kick us" having to wait longer.
Further frustration, In the early days of AP1, we were promised, our "car would come get you at the front door of a restaurant, as long as it was on private property". I paid for AP1 Tech Package on my P85D. It never came and got me at the front door of anywhere.
While I love the car and the extensive, well managed charging infrastructure, the warts of the company are testing this Tesla FanBoi's limits.
They could pacify many of us if they offered some sort of FSD credit toward a new Tesla if traded in. Between my lifetime free Supercharging, free Premium audio and $10,000 for FSD in a new car......further bleeding may not be worth it.
There were statements that we would see it in 18 months----that was 6 years ago?
 

jebinc

MSM Model S PLAID, cream/FSD; MYP, white on white
Supporting Member
Jun 19, 2019
7,599
10,634
Seattle area
No kidding 🤬

As a yoker (Refreshed MS LR/Plaid) breed, I was beside myself when Tesla diligently and silently excluded all of us premium product customers from the initial rollout, even though we;
1) played the game,
2) followed the tedious rules, and
3) maintained a perfect 100/100 safety score.

Several of us took to social media this week, hoping to put pressure on;
1)Tesla,
2) influencers/shills, and
3) to rally the rest of the community that got screwed over.

For you all, you might consider taking a similar route. Today, us "yokers" silently got included by receiving an unannounced wave 2 version, 2021.32.26. It took a week of hard core bitching on social media, but somehow, that seemed to have an effect on their behavior. Best of luck and keep the pressure on!

@Lowchrg @Phlier @Ryan27 @MarcG @spokey @Ramphex @qdeathstar @EVNow (sorry if I missed anyone).
 
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gearchruncher

Active Member
Sep 20, 2016
2,528
3,342
Seattle, WA
As a yoker (Refreshed MS LR/Plaid) breed, I was beside myself when Tesla diligently and silently excluded all of us premium product customers from the initial rollout, even though we;
Tesla appears to be rolling to plaid as of right now.

It would be helpful to keep this thread more focused on the early adopters (Pre 2018 vehicles), who are clearly being excluded due to older hardware, and we even have a solid reason why (these AP2 cameras can't see green lights and tell the difference from a green light or a red light that is burned out like a human can).
 
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jebinc

MSM Model S PLAID, cream/FSD; MYP, white on white
Supporting Member
Jun 19, 2019
7,599
10,634
Seattle area
Jebinc is throwing his support to this cause with a terrific idea. He's not thread-jacking in the slightest. The more support, the better. I appreciate the comment.

That's correct, as evidenced by my only post (save for this one). Not sure why @gearchruncher "cherry-picked" just the opening line from that post. Perhaps just a shite-disturber at heart. I'm out of this thread now. Good luck, all!
 

Lowchrg

Beta Blue-balled
Oct 1, 2021
135
393
Irvine, CA
That's correct, as evidenced by my only post (save for this one). Not sure why @gearchruncher "cherry-picked" just the opening line from that post. Perhaps just a shite-disturber at heart. I'm out of this thread now. Good luck, all!

We’re all a little strung out after the past few weeks. I appreciate your support deeply over the past few days of despair and hope to be joining you in the testing very soon.
 
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jebinc

MSM Model S PLAID, cream/FSD; MYP, white on white
Supporting Member
Jun 19, 2019
7,599
10,634
Seattle area
We’re all a little strung out after the past few weeks. I appreciate your support deeply over the past few days of despair and hope to be joining you in the testing very soon.
Same. Thanks for the support here and on Twitter! Hope you see a download notice soon!
 

MP3Mike

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2016
16,837
40,388
Oregon
It took a week of hard core bitching on social media, but somehow, that seemed to have an effect on their behavior.
Or what you did made no difference and it just took Tesla an extra week to get it ready to release to the refresh Model Ss. We will never know if your campaign made a difference or not.
 
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gearchruncher

Active Member
Sep 20, 2016
2,528
3,342
Seattle, WA
Not sure why @gearchruncher "cherry-picked" just the opening line from that post.
I am a total supporter that Tesla continues to behave completely inappropriately around FSD, with basically every buyer. However, the title of this thread literally is:

FSD’s earliest adopters find themselves again deprioritized and forgotten​

Which is why I was focusing there.

For you all, you might consider taking a similar route. Today, us "yokers" silently got included by receiving an unannounced wave 2 version, 2021.32.26. It took a week of hard core bitching on social media, but somehow, that seemed to have an effect on their behavior. Best of luck and keep the pressure on!
The huge difference being of course that the "yokers" have the newest hardware that is a superset of all previous HW. Probably just took a week to deal with some small detail to make that work that they were already working on. Not that they weren't going to and got pressured to do it.

Meanwhile, an AP2 camera literally cannot tell the difference between a yellow and green light. It needs completely different modeling and machine learning training given these different cameras, and likely can never work at all. Yelling at Tesla on Twitter isn't going to fix this anytime soon. Unless they have been training on these cars for the whole time FSD has been in beta, it's very, very far away.

They've known this for years, it's why they switched to AP2.5 in 2017, yet they continue to act like AP2 cars are FSD capable.
 
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jebinc

MSM Model S PLAID, cream/FSD; MYP, white on white
Supporting Member
Jun 19, 2019
7,599
10,634
Seattle area
Or what you did made no difference and it just took Tesla an extra week to get it ready to release to the refresh Model Ss. We will never know if your campaign made a difference or not.
@MP3Mike You have been poo-pooing the concern and effort all week, in various threads, include one where I created it as the OP. Whether a yoke or "early adopter" FSD car, the fact remains that they were silently excluded, counter to EM's "All" tweets. Then, we have the social media shills spreading misinformation and some getting special treatment - like that investor with a terrible safety score and still got it, as he "knows Elon".

Some of us chose to try to do something about it, via social media channels. I was even able to engage Mars, a favorite shill of Elon's. Did it matter/help, I have no idea, but I do now have FSD beta... It seems like you want to sit around and judge other's actions, while taking none yourself. Good day.
@Lowchrg
 

jebinc

MSM Model S PLAID, cream/FSD; MYP, white on white
Supporting Member
Jun 19, 2019
7,599
10,634
Seattle area
Trying my very hardest to get word around on this and make more prominent news sources and influencers aware of it. It seems the only way Tesla will do something is 1) litigation as you stated and 2) a news article / influencer speaking out.

I feel like I’m screaming at a wall.
Post your tweets here so folks can “like” them on Twitter?
 

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