Wiki FSD’s Earliest Adopters Still Waiting

[Draginol]

Fundamentally, the issue is that there is no word whether the people who have July 2017 or earlier cars who bought FSD and even paid to upgrade to the latest infotainment tech and and have AP3 now will EVER be able to use FSD because the unupgradeable cameras are different than the newer cars.

We’ve been patient. Years of waiting to use this feature that cost $10k. and what we want to know is IF they plan to support these cars. Yes or No and if Yes a rough estimate. My car is now over 4 years old. I’ve bought 3 Teslas. Just looking for some communication on where this stands.

Also, I RT’d some of the tweets here to my followers fwiw.

 

[MikeScarne]

Some transparency and communication would really be great but that’s not in their best interest so why bother.

I would love to have some closure on whether it’s possible for us to get it or if we should opt out as to continue getting new firmware releases and not stressing over this silly score any further.

The masses got their FSD and I hope we are not far behind. Almost a month of safety score driving at 100 has been rough.

Here here!

 

[MikeScarne]

Assuming it is the 2.0 cameras that are the issue (unverified, but makes sense), I would even be willing to entertain upgrading the cameras as long as it's not astronomical. Again, this is so easily resolved with an ounce of clarification from Tesla. Do we think they would even admit they're not going to focus on AP2.0 camera vehicles until the software is much closer to complete (or worse, never)?

 

[Blitz3RS]

I read through the whole thread and I'm with you all in this fight. I had a 2016 Model S that I purchased FSD for (subsequently sold it before ever getting to use it), and now have a 2017 (June build) MX that had the MCU 2 upgrade (with FSD computer install) but obviously has the older/legacy AP 2.0 camera suite.

I also had a 100 score through 8 Oct, and this past Wed (13 Oct) had a hard braking event that knocked it down to a 99. Regardless, trying to keep my score up, but frustrated in the lack of transparency. I don't want to play the grandma driving game any longer, as all joy in driving my car is now gone. The sooner someone that has an AP2 camera based install of FSD beta, I'm sure we can all feel better. I wouldn't even mind if it were someone, like an OG EAP/former NDA type to pipe up about it. Just want to see proof that it's coming, even if a longer timeline.

 

[azred]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1449100815059206146

https://twitter.com/x/status/1448891758717259778

Coincidentally, I also tweeted at Whole Mars Catalog and Musk yesterday but I doubt either one — certainly not Musk — even read them.

If you recall it took extra time for us to get the HW3 upgrade and some of us doubted that would ever happen. (Several of the 2.5’s suggested in this forum that we poor 2.0’s were likely SOL, which was very discouraging.)

I felt pretty confident after finally getting the HW3 upgrade but was concerned about the FSD switch to 100% cameras a few months ago given our color-challenged cameras. Yet I have noticed that the stoplight graphics on our upgraded MCU2 screens indicate our cameras do fine identifying stoplight colors even if they like me are color challenged. And images from the other cameras do seem to show detail similar to my Model 3, albeit with the color difference. ( I should note though that @greentheonly when asked about our cars a few days ago said it might be other hardware incompatibilities of 2.0 besides the cameras causing the possible issues. Of course he was just making an educated guess as Tesla talks to no one!)

I am still cautiously optimistic that just as we were last for HW3 we will be last for FSD — and that it will happen with our existing hardware. But we all know how piss poor Tesla’s customer service has become ever since production exploded exponentially with Model 3 in 2018. Why would we think there would be anyone to talk to about this Beta when it is so hard to even call and talk to a Tesla service advisor about routine maintenance? And if you are lucky enough to reach someone, it seems that they have about a week or two of job experience/knowledge to share. You can bet we know more about this FSD Beta than most of the service center ”experts,” who are also kept in the dark.

In addition to my 12/2016 S I have a 1/2018 3. But given the current horrible customer service, these are likely my last two Teslas. It’s one thing to be hard to reach for this small Beta group’s questions but the daily black hole for service questions is totally unacceptable. I only wish I could take my cars to my old independent Porsche mechanic, who would drink a cup of coffee with me while discussing my car or just to B.S. about any topic for a few minutes in his very busy day.

 

[azred]

Y'all. Y'all. I read OP and I just was screaming one thing: WHAT. GUYS. THE HW3 UPGRADE IS FREE IF YOU BOUGHT FSD!!

Why is there ANYONE left with AP2.0 hardware that bought FSD? Every one of them should have already scheduled their service to get HW3 installed. For free.

There's nobody running FSD Beta or Safety Score with AP2.5 hardware because it wasn't meant for that. Last year - now a year and a half ago - free upgrades were available to all FSD owners. MCU1 + HW3 was really the only remaining concern.

Y'all can't go around whining about not getting the button / being eligible for FSD Beta if you don't keep up on the news...

Ask questions before attacking. Shouting at us with half baked assumptions about our competence makes you look clueless and contributes nothing to this topic that matters a lot to those of us who own these cars. It might be a good idea to stop posting in this thread as it obviously isn’t relevant to you and we don’t need FSD 101 background help. What we do need is an ear from either Musk or someone who listens to him.

 

[azred]

Tesla appears to be rolling to plaid as of right now.

It would be helpful to keep this thread more focused on the early adopters (Pre 2018 vehicles), who are clearly being excluded due to older hardware, and we even have a solid reason why (these AP2 cameras can't see green lights and tell the difference from a green light or a red light that is burned out like a human can).

My S may not see “like a human can” as you put it, but for the many of us with various gradations of red-green color blindness my car sees more like I do than you’d think. My car and I do fine with stop lights because the three lights are positional. Where both of us would have problems are those situations (typically in a few rural areas) where there is a single flashing bulb and the color is either red or yellow. When I have encountered such situations I always slow way down because such lights are often at a rural intersection and a misreading could be fatal. So if my car’s color challenge is a “solid reason” to exclude our cars as you claim, then I guess color challenges like mine should exclude nearly 8% of the Caucasian male population from driving (the color defect is less common in other races).

What is annoying to me personally is why Tesla ever made a design choice to fit cars with partial color blindness. As common as the defect is in the population surely at least one member of their design team must have some red-green color blindness. But they could and should correct that bad design choice now. I wish my own eyes could be corrected with a few hundred dollars worth of cameras!

 

[nvx1977]

My S may not see “like a human can” as you put it, but for the many of us with various gradations of red-green color blindness my car sees more like I do than you’d think. My car and I do fine with stop lights because the three lights are positional. Where both of us would have problems are those situations (typically in a few rural areas) where there is a single flashing bulb and the color is either red or yellow. When I have encountered such situations I always slow way down because such lights are often at a rural intersection and a misreading could be fatal. So if my car’s color challenge is a “solid reason” to exclude our cars as you claim, then I guess color challenges like mine should exclude nearly 8% of the Caucasian male population from driving (the color defect is less common in other races).

What is annoying to me personally is why Tesla ever made a design choice to fit cars with partial color blindness. As common as the defect is in the population surely at least one member of their design team must have some red-green color blindness. But they could and should correct that bad design choice now. I wish my own eyes could be corrected with a few hundred dollars worth of cameras!

I wanted to DM you about the lack of colorblind accessibility in the UI ( didn't want to derail the thread), but it seems you've disabled DMs for your account. Mind starting a DM with me? Just a few questions, as accessibility is very high priority for me as a UXer, and based on what you wrote above, I might not have a full understanding of deuteranopic perception.

 

[Nosken]

Put your info in this spreadsheet so we can track who gets FSD Beta.

Wiki - MASTER THREAD: Actual FSD Beta downloads and experiences

22OCT21 Update: We are anticipating the release of v10.3 after midnight (PDT) tonight! Please keep your data current in the attached tracking spreadsheet ("S/S"). Please post your thoughts on v10.3, as either a new user, or one coming from v10.2. What improvements (or setbacks) have you...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[Khashoggi]

…

Meanwhile, an AP2 camera literally cannot tell the difference between a yellow and green light. It needs completely different modeling and machine learning training given these different cameras, and likely can never work at all. Yelling at Tesla on Twitter isn't going to fix this anytime soon. Unless they have been training on these cars for the whole time FSD has been in beta, it's very, very far away.

They've known this for years, it's why they switched to AP2.5 in 2017, yet they continue to act like AP2 cars are FSD capable.

On a 2016 Model X with AP2>AP3/MCU2 with the button it most definitely sees and shows yellow traffic signals on the visualizations. It can see red and green and yellow. Even when there is a sole yellow flashing light not part of a three light cluster it sees that single yellow light.

Others have upgraded their cameras from the AP2 to AP2.5 style on their own and if an end user can upgrade their cameras, the Tesla service department can too.

Now whether that is necessary is still unknown, but it can be done.

It is likely that because the cameras are different a differently trained net will be needed in a specific build for these cars.

 

[Saabstory88]

On a 2016 Model X with AP2>AP3/MCU2 with the button it most definitely sees and shows yellow traffic signals on the visualizations. It can see red and green and yellow. Even when there is a sole yellow flashing light not part of a three light cluster it sees that single yellow light.

Others have upgraded their cameras from the AP2 to AP2.5 style on their own and if an end user can upgrade their cameras, the Tesla service department can too.

Now whether that is necessary is still unknown, but it cand be done.

Even if you upgrade on your own, there is no method to telling the mothership that you are now eligible to receive updates where HW2.5 is required.

Are we even sure that former HW2.0 cars are getting vision features? I have seen zero improvement and am always on the latest software version. I also have a vision car to compare it to. I still get radar unavailable warnings that kick me out of AP in heavy rain, so I suspect that these cars can't even run the vision networks. So even if it's technically possible to retrofit the cameras, how are you then going to get Tesla to give you the software to utilize them?

 

[Khashoggi]

Even if you upgrade on your own, there is no method to telling the mothership that you are now eligible to receive updates where HW2.5 is required.

Are we even sure that former HW2.0 cars are getting vision features? I have seen zero improvement and am always on the latest software version. I also have a vision car to compare it to. I still get radar unavailable warnings that kick me out of AP in heavy rain, so I suspect that these cars can't even run the vision networks. So even if it's technically possible to retrofit the cameras, how are you then going to get Tesla to give you the software to utilize them?

Yes- if the cameras do have to be switched out, Tesla will have to do it so they know about it.

And, they are in control of the software so they have to want to do it, even though they have “promised” they will.

 

[Saabstory88]

Yes- if the cameras do have to be switched out, Tesla will have to do it so they know about it.

And, they are in control of the software so they have to want to do it, even though they have “promised” they will.

And because all AP improvements, FSD or not, require the Vision stack, our cars are effectively at EOL inter terms of any driving software, just like AP1. This is even going to suck for those non-FSD owners, as they will never again receive a useful Autopilot update. I'm really hoping that I can unload the S before dealers realize the diminished value of these builds... A Tesla that stops getting updates doesn't really fulfill the reason I bought it.

It's been amusing, but I don't want to own this car anymore.

 

[valem]

Meanwhile, an AP2 camera literally cannot tell the difference between a yellow and green light.

What are you talking about?

 

[Cheburashka]

Following this thread... I feel like we are such a small minority that Tesla doesn't really care much at this point.

 

[valem]

Meanwhile, an AP2 camera literally cannot tell the difference between a yellow and green light.

Also the traffic light indications are perfectly displayed in the visulaizations, even in direct sunlight.
I'll make a quick video and post it for you.

 

[Saabstory88]

Also the traffic light indications are perfectly displayed in the visulaizations, even in direct sunlight.
I'll make a quick video and post it for you.

Thag provides zero bearing on whether or not the Vision/FSD stack can use the cameras.

I guess I'm going to put in a request stating that some unknown assailant smashed all 8 of my cameras, and see which part numbers they quote.

 

[gearchruncher]

Also the traffic light indications are perfectly displayed in the visulaizations, even in direct sunlight.
I'll make a quick video and post it for you.

That doesn't mean it can work in all edge cases with different orientations, single lights, or burned out lights that are needed for real FSD.

 

[Lowchrg]

Following this thread... I feel like we are such a small minority that Tesla doesn't really care much at this point.

This is what worries me the most and why I’m trying to be very vocal. We are small but we need to make ourselves heard. There is no upgrade pathway for this like MCU2 and it feels like I’ve been slighted.

I hope 10.3 comes with this resolved and we can stop worrying. If still nothing then screw my safety score, I’m driving my car again.

 

[azred]

Sorry to see so little interest in this thread today but our “old” Teslas matter little to most owners and even less to Tesla.