Wiki FSD’s Earliest Adopters Still Waiting

[dbldwn02]

Was this “promise” written in your order agreement or on a non Tesla chat forum. If he said it will snow tomorrow would you run out and buy a shovel?

I'm so tired of the sales order "argument"

The sales order didn't say when EAP was going to be delivered...the website said that it would be delivered in 2017. And a judge ordered Tesla pay damages for being late on delivering. Several thousand people got checks for $50-250. Sooo, I'm not a lawyer but it seems like the sales order wasn't even used in this case and Tesla still had to pay.

Tesla (not Elon) also said details of the Robotaxi network would be released in 2017...that hasn't come to fruition either. Once they finally make a car that has L4 (which will probably be never), then 2016/17/18 owners stuck on L2 will have a VERY strong case on that feature not being delivered. IF Tesla ever gets L4, they owe hardware upgrades or a L4 car to those particular owners. Since there will only be handful of those cars on the road, the damages will be minimal, compared to Te$la's market cap.

 

[Krash]

…Once they finally make a car that has L4 (which will probably be never), then 2016/17/18 owners stuck on L2 will have a VERY strong case on that feature not being delivered…

So never.

 

[Knightshade]

I'm so tired of the sales order "argument"

The sales order didn't say when EAP was going to be delivered...the website said that it would be delivered in 2017. And a judge ordered Tesla pay damages for being late on delivering. Several thousand people got checks for $50-250. Sooo, I'm not a lawyer but it seems like the sales order wasn't even used in this case and Tesla still had to pay.

Sure.

But in this case I'm citing the website for what was promised.

Tesla (not Elon) also said details of the Robotaxi network would be released in 2017...

They did promise (at least) L4- but not by any specific date.

The nearest to RTs though is this line- and it comes AFTER the sentences about self driving functionality being dependent on extensive SW validation and regulatory approval and it not being known when those will happen-

using a self-driving Tesla for car sharing and ride hailing for friends and family is fone, but doing so for revenue purposes will only be permissible on the Tesla network, details of which will be released next year

So first- they can credibly argue not much need to do that until self-driving Teslas are a working thing-- but beyond that I'm sure they made SOME statements about such a network in 2018 they could point at... and beyond THAT, most relevant to a lawsuit-- what are your damages from Tesla failing to deliver "details" of the network, when the actual self-driving car part doesn't exist? Because I think they're $0.00. "They didn't tell me the details of a thing that doesn't even exist so that cost me... literally nothing your honor because even with the details there's nothing to have been done with them since the actual thing doesn't exist"



Now Tesla failing to deliver the self-driving part-- once you convince a jury they've taken unreasonably long to do so- is a much easier lift to cite damages for.

 

[dbldwn02]

So never.

Yup...Exactly why Tesla has nothing to worry about. Eases my concerns about being "left behind", and allows me to just enjoy the car, as-is.

 

[scottf200]

Re: 2023.44.30.8

I have legacy 2017 TMX and after what appeared to be a good install of 30.8 from 30.6, I'm getting a 'Software update required' msg.
NOTE: I did a two-finger reboot with no change. I'm considering the reinstall option within Service Mode but wanted to check forums first.

Drivers display:

Service Mode expansion of msg (what was duplicated w/same time):

Service Mode option to do software reinstall

 

[Tesomega]

if everything is still BETA did you get what you paid for ? Or is it considered still undelivered? From a timeline perspective would this argument help, that Tesla has not delivered the software and releasing beta updates that still have not delivered purchased functionality?

 

[Tesomega]

Re: 2023.44.30.8

I have legacy 2017 TMX and after what appeared to be a good install of 30.8 from 30.6, I'm getting a 'Software update required' msg.
NOTE: I did a two-finger reboot with no change. I'm considering the reinstall option within Service Mode but wanted to check forums first.

Drivers display:

Service Mode expansion of msg (what was duplicated w/same time):

Service Mode option to do software reinstall

how to enter service mode in MCU1 vehicles, is there a specific code that you need to enter?

 

[Knightshade]

if everything is still BETA did you get what you paid for ? Or is it considered still undelivered? From a timeline perspective would this argument help, that Tesla has not delivered the software and releasing beta updates that still have not delivered purchased functionality?

beta has no legal meaning, it's irrelevant to anything you'd be suing over.

If you paid for EAP that's been fully delivered for a while. If you paid for FSD after ~March 2019 then fsdb technically fully delivers everything you were promised as well. The only people by strictest letter of what they were promised with the purchase owed anything are the pre 3/19 FSD buyers (owed at least L4), or any post 3/19 FSD buyers outside the areas FSDb is available in (owed what fsdb offers in NA).

 

[Tesomega]

beta has no legal meaning, it's irrelevant to anything you'd be suing over.

If you paid for EAP that's been fully delivered for a while. If you paid for FSD after ~March 2019 then fsdb technically fully delivers everything you were promised as well. The only people by strictest letter of what they were promised with the purchase owed anything are the pre 3/19 FSD buyers (owed at least L4), or any post 3/19 FSD buyers outside the areas FSDb is available in (owed what fsdb offers in NA).

I don't think so, every feature of EAP is still in BETA (especially features that still dont work). and especially with Tesla moving to all VISION, I can argue they have effectively abandoned the features that my car was designed for, no ? Just to reiterate, I am planning to go the small claims route.. for the full $10k in california.

 

[hybridbear]

beta has no legal meaning, it's irrelevant to anything you'd be suing over.

If you paid for EAP that's been fully delivered for a while. If you paid for FSD after ~March 2019 then fsdb technically fully delivers everything you were promised as well. The only people by strictest letter of what they were promised with the purchase owed anything are the pre 3/19 FSD buyers (owed at least L4), or any post 3/19 FSD buyers outside the areas FSDb is available in (owed what fsdb offers in NA).

What changed in March 2019 with the wording?

 

[Tesomega]

Any one here filed small claims in California, can you help me with the Right Contacts I would need to send the Small Claims documents?

 

[Knightshade]

I don't think so

Then you are factually incorrect.

, every feature of EAP is still in BETA

Which has no legal meaning.

They could be called GAMMA ALPHA ULTRA too and it'd mean exactly nothing as well.

I can argue they have effectively abandoned the features that my car was designed for, no ?

No.

Just to reiterate, I am planning to go the small claims route.. for the full $10k in california.

I'm unaware of anyone ever winning a case over EAP which as I said is fully delivered and has been for years at this point.

FSD is more questionable depending on if you find a judge who doesn't know enough to know what you are showing during purchase versus marketing tweets...and especially if Tesla doesn't bother to show up in court which they might not.

 

[Knightshade]

What changed in March 2019 with the wording?

After March 2019 the only thing FSD promised you above EAP was:

Responding to stop signs and stop lights (delivered a while ago now)
Autosteer on city streets (delivered via FSDb to north american FSD owners now)

And neither was promised any higher than L2.


Many when the change was made suggested this was Tesla limiting their legal liability if they could never deliver above L2.


PRIOR to that instead of a couple of vague things never promised higher than L2, they had a much broader description that was, at minimum, L4 because it said the vehicle would be capable of both long and short trips while requiring no action whatsoever from anyone in the drivers seat.

This specific thing has been rehashed 20 or 30 times in this thread and others, including screen shots from the respective dates, if you care to go back and look for them.

 

[gearchruncher]

Any one here filed small claims in California, can you help me with the Right Contacts I would need to send the Small Claims documents?

Please read or seach this the small claims thread, where this has been covered already:
How to sue Tesla over historical claims.

(moderator edit)

 

[scottf200]

how to enter service mode in MCU1 vehicles, is there a specific code that you need to enter?

I did the MCU1->MCU2 upgrade and *love* it. I'd do it again 100%. Tesla even has videos on getting in and explaining parts of the Service Mode.

 

[scottf200]

Re: 2023.44.30.8

I have legacy 2017 TMX and after what appeared to be a good install of 30.8 from 30.6, I'm getting a 'Software update required' msg.
NOTE: I did a two-finger reboot with no change. I'm considering the reinstall option within Service Mode but wanted to check forums first.

Drivers display:

Service Mode expansion of msg (what was duplicated w/same time):

Service Mode option to do software reinstall

I couldn't find others with this same problem (ie. not common glitch) so I did the CAN ECU reinstall and my "problem" went away. Yea!!

 

[Krash]

Just to clarify, for older cars with both the HW3 upgrade and the RCCB camera upgrade, for those who paid for FSD and selected beta but have not received it, there is nothing to do but wait.

That means that later this year for some Q4 2016 cars, their 8 year drivetrain and battery warranty will expire without FSD being delivered to them, correct?

Eight years seems like a long time to wait.

 

[Knightshade]

Just to clarify, for older cars with both the HW3 upgrade and the RCCB camera upgrade, for those who paid for FSD and selected beta but have not received it, there is nothing to do but wait.

That means that later this year for some Q4 2016 cars, their 8 year drivetrain and battery warranty will expire without FSD being delivered to them, correct?

Eight years seems like a long time to wait.

Yup-- the very first FSD buyers are now also approaching the average length of time a new car buyer owns a new car for-- which I suggested a while ago might be a point we start seeing more legal action on those exact folks part coupled with the warranty expiration--- the case for reasonable person standard seems reinforced by passing those dates.

 

[gaswalla]

That’s probably why they offered to transfer FSD recently with a new purchase.. no reason people should feel compelled to do so, but it fits the pattern of Tesla

 

[Knightshade]

That’s probably why they offered to transfer FSD recently with a new purchase.. no reason people should feel compelled to do so, but it fits the pattern of Tesla

Other upside for Tesla there, IIRC they're effectively giving up the old "We promise at least L4" version of FSD sold pre 3/19, and getting instead the current "we never promised more than L2" version further limiting their liability... honestly I'm surprised they didn't run that program longer.