FSD Beta 10.69

[sleepydoc]

Sure, but why accelerate only to slam on the brakes a second later?
The pedestrian is obviously spooked by it and I’m sure it wasn’t all that comfortable for the driver.

I just looked at the video again. It's really hard to gauge acceleration and braking in videos but it started accelerating when it entered the roundabout and then accelerated for 100 frames or about 3.3 seconds to 15 mph. That's the equivalent of a 12 second 0-60 time. Hardly aggressive acceleration. It had finished accelerating about the time it was halfway between entering the roundabout and getting ready to exit and at that time was already stating to decelerate.

I would hardly call the pedestrian spooked - he looks up as he's crossing the the median, sees the Tesla and stops to make sure it's going to stop for him.

How do you figure (I assume it is because the pedestrian was highlighted in dark at that time)? It was applying power at 1:48:00 (and then started slowing about two frames later)

Actually, it starts dropping power at 1:47:00 as evidenced by the black line decreasing. At 1:48:00 the power line was neutral and at 1:48:01 it was green.

The pedestrian was visible early on but even viewing the video a few times I couldn't tell exactly where he was or where he was going. I can't clearly tell he's crossing the intersection until the car is already going 12-13 MPH, and that's with careful, repeated viewing of the video.

Besides, weren't you just criticizing FSDb because it stopped for a pedestrian before they entered the cross walk? Now this guy is 6-10 feet back from the curb and you're criticizing FSDb for being to slow to stop. You seem more keen to criticize than you do to be consistent.

No, it's not, and it's really not even close. The car behind is blocking the roundabout though.

Agree with you here - from what I can tell, the cross walk is set back far enough that a car can stop without blocking the roundabout.

 

[sleepydoc]

I have to conclude that many people here have very low opinions of their own driving (unclear whether justified or not; I suspect often not, though my wife frequently complains about slow Tesla drivers so maybe you guys are onto something).

It makes sense that the earliest adopters of automated driving technologies would be the worst drivers.

you're completely ignoring what happens as you enter a roundabout - you approach, then look to the left to see if the coast is clear because that's the only direction you need to worry about. Then you enter the roundabout and plan your exit. at this point you're already in the roundabout at full speed (full roundabout speed, that is).

 

[Daniel in SD]

you're completely ignoring what happens as you enter a roundabout - you approach, then look to the left to see if the coast is clear because that's the only direction you need to worry about. Then you enter the roundabout and plan your exit. at this point you're already in the roundabout at full speed (full roundabout speed, that is).

I always look where I’m going before I accelerate. The problem with looking left while accelerating from a stop is that there may be someone or something in front of your car.

 

[sleepydoc]

I always look where I’m going before I accelerate. The problem with looking left while accelerating from a stop is that there may be someone or something in front of your car.

of course you look at the crosswalk where you're entering first, but you're already done that by the time you get to the point where you need to look left. You typically don't look at the exit until you've entered the roundabout.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

At 1:48:00 the power line was neutral and at 1:48:01 it was green.

This is incorrect on both counts. Evidence is in the video (first or second frame after 1:48:00 went green, not going to watch again to provide specifics but obviously the screen capture is above).

Actually, it starts dropping power at 1:47:00 as evidenced by the black line decreasing.

Already detailed.

Besides, weren't you just criticizing FSDb because it stopped for a pedestrian before they entered the cross walk?

Totally different situation. In that case already traveling 40mph with pedestrian much further away and zero collision risk. The video in that case is unfortunately in GIF form so it’s hard to see the exact timing or even pedestrian location, but seems possible they were not even to the median by the time the car would have passed the crosswalk at original velocity (since they got there at the time the car stopped according to OP).

The timing really matters! In one case zero collision risk, in second case collision was quite possible.

Making the correct decisions is much easier, usually, than dissecting them.

 

[JulienW]

Something a little different, not really informative and just for fun.

Interesting video from a non Tesla YouTuber. Roadguyrob makes quirky videos about…..well roads, streets, highways, traffic, and infrastructure. Here is a street that was repainted with the idea to slow traffic and safety. You may have seen it on the news. Of course it didn’t quit turn out the way it was planned but…….


The Tesla owner he gets does know about Beta and the 2 different stacks. He even turns Beta off to test on the AP only stack. Not a lot to see and Beta and AP preform as you would expect.

 

[sleepydoc]

This is incorrect on both counts. Evidence is in the video (first or second frame after 1:48:00 went green, not going to watch again to provide specifics but obviously the screen capture is above).

um, yeah - that’s exactly what I said.

Totally different situation. In that case already traveling 40mph with pedestrian much further away and zero collision risk. The video in that case is unfortunately in GIF form so it’s hard to see the exact timing or even pedestrian location, but seems possible they were not even to the median by the time the car would have passed the crosswalk at original velocity (since they got there at the time the car stopped according to OP).

The timing really matters! In one case zero collision risk, in second case collision was quite possible.

Making the correct decisions is much easier, usually, than dissecting them.

No, not really different - the pedestrian in the first case was waiting to cross and the car was legally required to stop. The pedestrian in this case was actually 6 feet back but both of them were in crosswalk islands/medians.

Regardless, FSD behaved appropriately in both cases.

 

[Daniel in SD]

of course you look at the crosswalk where you're entering first, but you're already done that by the time you get to the point where you need to look left. You typically don't look at the exit until you've entered the roundabout.

If you look at where you're going the pedestrian is right there. Look left to make sure no one is coming, look where you're going, and then accelerate is the order I was taught.
There's also the fact that he has time to see the person and ask "Are you going to wait for this person?"

 

[EVNow]

If you look at where you're going the pedestrian is right there. Look left to make sure no one is coming, look where you're going, and then accelerate is the order I was taught.
There's also the fact that he has time to see the person and ask "Are you going to wait for this person?"
View attachment 866505

Looking at this - I'd probably enter the roundabout and wait where the car is present in the photo. But probably go slow knowing I might have to stop.

 

[EVNow]

Now THAT was a required stop (pedestrian in median, proceeding and “upon” the lane (making up my own definition of “upon”)). Terribly executed, of course.

Just terrible. It literally should know what to do several seconds prior. It sees everything.

Terrible is not the word I'd use. "Awkward" is the right word that DirtyTesla uses.

Considering how badly in general FSDb handles roundabouts - I'd say it was par for the course.

I can also see how a lot of people might have handled it about the same or worse (basically trying to "beat" the pedestrian).

 

[kabin]

That round-about video sums up 10.69.2.3 performance. I'm probably a bit more impatient when driving but here's where I see it.

FSDb has the first fail upon approaching the round-about as it's unable to anticipate where to fit in line and instead discovers at the last second it needs to brake hard. The second failure is related to the first fail - stopping and dawdling before accelerating up to a nominal round-about velocity. Fail three is the inability to anticipate if there's time to pass the crosswalk before the pedestrian approaches. Fail four is dawdling between the first and second pedestrians. Many FSDb problems come back to myopia, excess latency, and indecisiveness.

Fortunately there aren't many attentive humans that drive like FSDb and I would bet most would have made it through that scene carrying velocity, never needing to stop (let alone 2 stops!), and never needing to encounter the first pedestrian.

We'll see if Tesla is content with the current latency and delivers it as such. Tesla needs some FSDb mojo.

 

[EVNow]

That round-about video sums up 10.69.2.3 performance.

Definitely not. Roundabouts are simply not handled properly. I get a lot of failures with roundabouts, as I keep writing.

69.x is more about turnings (unprotected & protected) rather than roundabouts. They need to spend a considerable amount of time to address roundabout specific issues.

 

[EVNow]

Has anyone noticed the navigation seems to have changed recently. It is now using U-turns and even using parking lots to turn around that I saw yesterday.

Here ... it actually did a u-turn. I didn't know it would - so didn't try it on Thursday where the navigation was showing u-turn. Will try it this week. Anyone saw u-turn working ?

 

[Dewg]

Has anyone noticed the navigation seems to have changed recently. It is now using U-turns and even using parking lots to change direction that I saw yesterday.

Here ... it actually did a u-turn. I didn't know it would - so didn't try it on Thursday where the navigation was showing u-turn. Will try it this week. Anyone saw u-turn working ?

Loaded with phantom braking, car goes into bus lane, incorrect lane choices, had to intervene on the u-turn, jerky turns, use of brakes instead of regen only, hesitant to change lanes, incorrect visualizations of cones, can't navigate cone lane without massive braking, can't handle lane split and probably freaked out traffic behind him, had to cancel navigation because he knew the car would perform an illegal maneuver, failed u-turns repeatedly.

Utter and complete failure. Can't believe this software is being allowed on the road in its current state, which hasn't seen much improvement in years. Another excellent video highlighting why this software needs to be recalled immediately, for public safety.

 

[cbdream99]

Has anyone noticed the navigation seems to have changed recently. It is now using U-turns and even using parking lots to turn around that I saw yesterday.

Here ... it actually did a u-turn. I didn't know it would - so didn't try it on Thursday where the navigation was showing u-turn. Will try it this week. Anyone saw u-turn working ?

I tried to get to the supercharger last week which required a U-turn but it said it cannot handle it on the screen, and I took over.

 

[cbdream99]

Has anyone experienced FSDb being confused about the lanes between junctions? This is worse in 10.69.2.3, it's not failing as much in 2.2.

My local road has two lanes in each direction and a double yellow line separating each direction, there are gaps when the road meets the side street exit and there are no markings. The road is not straight and if I am traveling in the right lane, once it passes the gap, it will continue to the left lane without signaling. If I am in the right lane then it triggered a lane departure warning because it drifted across the double yellow line for a moment.

Another scenario is in a large major cross junction (4 lanes) in each direction, again there are no markings or bolts, and sometimes it will suddenly jerk around when crossing, especially when no other vehicle is beside me.

 

[sleepydoc]

If you look at where you're going the pedestrian is right there. Look left to make sure no one is coming, look where you're going, and then accelerate is the order I was taught.
There's also the fact that he has time to see the person and ask "Are you going to wait for this person?"
View attachment 866505

Before I looked over there, I’d be looking at the crosswalk I have to pass to enter the roundabout, then I’d look to the left to see if I can enter the roundabout.

Beyond that, I can’t even tell where that pedestrian is - is he in the crosswalk, entering it or on the far side planning staying there? everyone‘s bitching and hollering about how ‘fast’ FSD was driving - it was 15 flippin’ miles per hour. People drive faster than that in parking lots and it doesn’t take any Time at all to slow down from 15 MPH.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Before I looked over there, I’d be looking at the crosswalk I have to pass to enter the roundabout, then I’d look to the left to see if I can enter the roundabout.

Beyond that, I can’t even tell where that pedestrian is - is he in the crosswalk, entering it or on the far side planning staying there? everyone‘s bitching and hollering about how ‘fast’ FSD was driving - it was 15 flippin’ miles per hour. People drive faster than that in parking lots and it doesn’t take any Time at all to slow down from 15 MPH.

The picture is from after waiting for car in the roundabout and after he already went past the first crosswalk. If he had been driving properly he could have slipped in behind the car and not even had to stop.
I think you’re underestimating how much more clear things are in real life versus watching on video.
You can stop from 15mph in about half a second but it’s not very comfortable. The point is there’s no need to jerk passengers around if you can get to your destination just as fast while driving smoothly.

 

[EVNow]

The picture is from after waiting for car in the roundabout and after he already went past the first crosswalk. If he had been driving properly he could have slipped in behind the car and not even had to stop.
I think you’re underestimating how much more clear things are in real life versus watching on video.

I thought you guys don’t have many roundabouts in CA ?

May be that’s where all the bravado comes from

 

[Daniel in SD]

I thought you guys don’t have many roundabouts in CA ?

May be that’s where all the bravado comes from

I haven’t seen many multi lane roundabouts but we do have a few just like the one in the video near me (La Jolla blvd).
My multi lane roundabout skill is probably not great but I don’t have the 60 million miles of driving experience that FSD beta has.