FSD Beta 10.69

[willow_hiller]

There's almost 3 seconds there from the time the car entered the lane and FSD Beta still drove right into it.

Yep, absolutely no precedent for these kinds of accidents with autonomous systems: This Arizona college student has taken over 60 driverless Waymo rides

"Most sideswipe crashes (eight out of ten) involved the other vehicle changing lanes into the Waymo vehicle's lane. In one of the cases where the Waymo changed lanes, Waymo says the other car was traveling 30mph above the speed limit."

 

[clydeiii]

When do we get a new 10.69.3 thread?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Accident on FSD Beta

This shows how completely wrong people are when they claim "Oh that's not even close to being a safety disengagement, look at the path UI, FSD would have handled it if driver didn't take over". There's almost 3 seconds there from the time the car entered the lane and FSD Beta still drove right into it.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1590165478634586112

Yeah, no surprises there. It’s very odd how slow FSDb is to react.

In this case, it’s not clear it even noticed the merging vehicle.

A very easy one to avoid.

 

[sleepydoc]

I’ve started to wonder how the “AWD” on my Tesla compares to that of my previous Audi 7 series. The Tesla seams to kick out the rear on turns where the Audi would see it coming and shift power around the wheels better.

I came from an Audi A4 Quattro. The AWD system on the Audi was definitely superior, but then it’s one of the best on the market so it’s a pretty high bar. Like you said, the MY tends to fishtail more easily. I’ve attributed that to a couple of things. First, as @Daniel in SD says, the car is primarily in RWD mode unless needed. I believe this is for a combination of driving dynamics and efficiency since the rear motor is more efficient than the front motor.

As an EV, the center of gravity is further back, putting more weight on the rear wheels. It’s of course heavier overall, too.

Finally, the tires on the MY are fairly wide. They’re great for dry pavement but less great for snow.

Having said all that, I’ve also found that the AWD system in my MY recovers very quickly. The rear wheels will start to slip and it instantly kicks in and regains control. After getting used to it last winter I found that although it wasn’t as sure-footed as my Audi it still did quite well and I never had problems actually losing control.

 

[sleepydoc]

FSD beta currently will bail out in anything heavier than light rain. But, other than getting a "FSD beta may be degraded" message, I have had no issues using it in rain.

Not always - see my post above.

 

[BBTX]

Accident on FSD Beta

This shows how completely wrong people are when they claim "Oh that's not even close to being a safety disengagement, look at the path UI, FSD would have handled it if driver didn't take over". There's almost 3 seconds there from the time the car entered the lane and FSD Beta still drove right into it.

First off, "not my fault" is kinda BS here. We've been over it a thousand times: you are in charge of the car, and it's on you to intervene. The driver had ample time to handle that situation. The other car didn't hit the Tesla. The other car made a reckless move into the Tesla's lane ahead of the Tesla, for sure, but the Tesla and its driver had ample time to react. Seems like tapping the brakes a little or shifting to the empty pavement to the right would've saved this. Instead, he drove straight ahead into the rear corner of the recklessly-driven car.

Autopilot/FSD should have reacted if it was engaged. Definitely a failure of whatever automation was in play (not clear from the video which if any was engaged, since it's just sentry cam feed?). All of those automations currently require vigilance, and takeover in edge cases.

 

[Daniel in SD]

edge cases

I don’t think an edge case can be something that happens to literally everyone during their lifetime. This case happens to me multiple times a year.
I’d be very curious if the Mercedes L3 system can avoid collisions like this.

 

[mjwojtukiewicz]

Feels like fsd beta updates have now gotten de prioritized with elons Twitter distractions. He sold massive amounts of tesla stock the last three trading days to fund Twitter loans he had taken out.

Wish he’d focus back on tesla!

He's too busy with lawsuits and killing Twitter not that I mind. Twitter is awful

 

[Jeff N]

To me it seems insane to even drive in the rain with FSD Beta. Every recommendation I have ever seen is to not use cruise control in very wet conditions.

And given FSDb’s propensity for having no idea what to do with the go pedal, I would advise no one to use it in those conditions. Let alone snow and ice (obviously not!).

I’ve driven it in the rain but I was extra vigilant. It did surprisingly well.

 

[mjwojtukiewicz]

He's too busy with lawsuits and killing Twitter not that I mind. Twitter is awful

Read this.takes about 10 minutes I think I know Elon's game ... maybe

 

[sleepydoc]

First off, "not my fault" is kinda BS here. We've been over it a thousand times: you are in charge of the car, and it's on you to intervene. The driver had ample time to handle that situation. The other car didn't hit the Tesla. The other car made a reckless move into the Tesla's lane ahead of the Tesla, for sure, but the Tesla and its driver had ample time to react. Seems like tapping the brakes a little or shifting to the empty pavement to the right would've saved this. Instead, he drove straight ahead into the rear corner of the recklessly-driven car.

Autopilot/FSD should have reacted if it was engaged. Definitely a failure of whatever automation was in play (not clear from the video which if any was engaged, since it's just sentry cam feed?). All of those automations currently require vigilance, and takeover in edge cases.

People tend to confuse right of way, fault and avoidability. In this case, TeslaRaj clearly had the right of way. Since the other car didn’t have the right of way it was at fault, right? Well, Raj could have easily avoided the accident by swerving and/or braking. So by failing to take any accident did he cause the accident?

 

[BBTX]

I don’t think an edge case can be something that happens to literally everyone during their lifetime. This case happens to me multiple times a year.
I’d be very curious if the Mercedes L3 system can avoid collisions like this.

It's still an edge case statistically. Out of all the miles driven, out of all the times you're in a traffic situation like this, it doesn't occur very often. Statistical edge cases where another driver does an unpredictable and stupid thing are exactly when current FSD beta is going to need the human to be ready to intervene, as documented. If we ever get to L3, it will definitely have to handle this case reliably, but we're not there yet in Tesla-land.

People tend to confuse right of way, fault and avoidability. In this case, TeslaRaj clearly had the right of way. Since the other car didn’t have the right of way it was at fault, right? Well, Raj could have easily avoided the accident by swerving and/or braking. So by failing to take any accident did he cause the accident?

Well, that sounds like what insurance lawyers would argue about. I can only guess, and the laws vary a lot by state. Regardless, though, given the situation, the correct move was to avoid the incident in the first place. This is a "you can beat the rap but not the ride" sort of tradeoff. Even if it ends up entirely being the other person's "fault", do you really want to do deal with all of the mess in a situation you could've just avoided?

In the reaction time you've got in situations like this, you can't be pondering liability and right of way. You have a very short window of time, and your only thoughts should be "is there a way I can fix this without making things worse?". Given the situation as the cameras seem to show, I think a little light braking and/or swerving to the right could've avoided this incident happening at all. Even at higher speeds and with blockage to the right, straight line braking might've been a better option, even if there were someone else behind you.

 

[JohnB007]

Since I received the car, I've experienced many rainy days, some with near zero visibility (to my eyes). AP has yet to give up on me. It downgrades itself and shows two blue lines, but still keeps going, reliably. My hands are on the wheel, but it somehow clearly sees more than I do under rainy conditions. Some cars were parked on the side as these micro storms were passing by.

As for snow, I've only encountered few so far as I received the car in March. I did have one super-slippery day, and it didn't show any concerns.

While back, I saw a video of Tesla vs Ioniq 5 performing in slow covered tracks and Tesla was surprisingly stable under those conditions while Ioniq 5 was struggling. I don't know how I5 performs vs other cars but at least that gave me some comfort.

 

[EVNow]

Except for this - Elon Musk has pulled more than 50 Tesla employees into his Twitter takeover

He pulled 50 software engineers mostly from the autopilot team to go muck around at Twitter. This is how he plays a big role in fsd - he chooses the direction, the release cadence, and even who is working the project.

Asking people to do some code reviews for a day is different from "pulled". The media never ceases to amaze me.

 

[EVNow]

Accident on FSD Beta

How do you know he was on FSDb ? I saw a few comments on the tweet asking Raj was he on FSDb and he hasn't answered. He doesn't say anywhere he was on FSDb.

 

[willow_hiller]

How do you know he was on FSDb ? I saw a few comments on the tweet asking Raj was he on FSDb and he hasn't answered. He doesn't say anywhere he was on FSDb.

He followed up in later Tweets:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1590184302071144448

Also claimed he didn't have his foot on the accelerator, but he also said he was driving while tired, so anything's possible.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

How do you know he was on FSDb ? I saw a few comments on the tweet asking Raj was he on FSDb and he hasn't answered. He doesn't say anywhere he was on FSDb.

He has 10.69.3, and he says he was using FSD.

I think it is a reasonable conclusion. Obviously he could have it turned off or whatever in the options, but he would not be doing that.

And as mentioned he quickly followed up in the replies that FSD was engaged (FSDb of course).

https://twitter.com/x/status/1587679832732639232

 

[bobsmy]

Read this.takes about 10 minutes I think I know Elon's game ... maybe

He sold several $B of stock and moved 50 AI developers to Twitter. think he is losing interest.

 

[CharleyBC]

Except for this - Elon Musk has pulled more than 50 Tesla employees into his Twitter takeover

They'll be working on FST: full self tweeting. You tell Twitter a bit about the things that interest you, and it tweets for you.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I’d be very curious if the Mercedes L3 system can avoid collisions like this.

Seems like it must be able to, otherwise it would be getting into collisions all the time. I guess we’ll find out soon enough.

Doesn’t seem like an extraordinarily difficult problem. Just don’t hit other cars?