sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
Don’t worry… you get used to it!
I don’t view signaling for a 90º bend necessarily wrong. Certainly doesn’t hurt. The random signals when you’re just going straight on the other hand…
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FSD Beta 10.69
- Thread starter Buckminster
- Start date
I don’t view signaling for a 90º bend necessarily wrong. Certainly doesn’t hurt. The random signals when you’re just going straight on the other hand…
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
@Silicon DesertGot my update this morning but haven't gone for a drive yet. It's raining here so I think I'll wait... unless I want to get my car washed.
Went for a really short drive like 3 miles RT and first impression coming from 10.12.2 i think it's pretty ok...one thing i noticed it did that it's never done before is make a left turn from the outer lane to the outer most right lane in anticipation of the next turn (not sure if i really anticipates upcoming turns), but I believe I saw this behavior in Chuck's 10.69.1.1 video. Ironically same turn in 10.69.2 went to inner lane followed up quick lane change to the right. So not sure what triggers this.
Other than that, left turns were very smooth. Unprotected right yield was too slow. Stopping and waiting for all lanes to clear while cars pile up behind you, but like @AlanSubie4Life said, maybe it's safer to wait for all lanes of traffic to be clear before proceeding
. But I dunno...i'd be too embarrassed to hold up traffic for that reason
Other than that, left turns were very smooth. Unprotected right yield was too slow. Stopping and waiting for all lanes to clear while cars pile up behind you, but like @AlanSubie4Life said, maybe it's safer to wait for all lanes of traffic to be clear before proceeding
. But I dunno...i'd be too embarrassed to hold up traffic for that reason
Silicon Desert
Well-Known Member
Oh come on now. Go out and risk your life for a changeGot my update this morning but haven't gone for a drive yet. It's raining here so I think I'll wait... unless I want to get my car washed.
Be sure to set the FSD speed for 85 mph in a 15 mph residential zone and let us know how it goes 
willow_hiller
Well-Known Member
No FSD Beta for me, but I was just pushed 2022.20.9, oddly enough. So I think Tesla is deliberately keeping people in the Beta Queue back from 2022.24.
Possible you've mistaken 2022.20.9 for 2022.20.15 @TheProton ?
Possible you've mistaken 2022.20.9 for 2022.20.15 @TheProton ?
All right. It's New Jersey time on 69.2.
The bad news: Unprotected left turn with no stop signs and no traffic. Car crept up. Stopped. Crept up. And then, for 30 seconds, with an occasional quiver, stopped for good. Gassed it and it did the left, but kept on trying to stop in the middle of the road. Ding! #1.
Next, unprotected left turn but with marked lanes and a stop sign. Good, long wait for traffic to clear. Could see that creep line on the display. After a couple of minutes of cross traffic from both sides, there was a gap. It crept forward, and freaked out - the car coming from the right was getting Too Close. Gassed it, went through. Ding! #2.
Next: Unprotected left turn across crossing traffic on a wwiiiddde road. Sane humans hug the double-yellow (with gap) center line to let (potentially 2, but really) one lane of traffic through on the right. Car did what it did on the previous release: Turned right to block traffic coming up from the rear, then stopped to wait for oncoming traffic to clear. Sigh. Ding! #3.
Next: From on-ramp to busy semi-major local road. Got totally confused, didn't merge to the left when it shoulda, had to take control. Ding! #4.
No problems for the next couple-three miles, but it's never had problems on those miles. Now, the on-ramp to an interstate. Previous release: Jerky city. This release: Smooth as butter in the turn, except half-way through it told me to pay attention to the road. Not enough torque on the steering wheel, I guess. Still, a serious improvement. I've been in the habit over the past couple of months to put the left hand on the steering wheel and the right hand clutching the center console as a brace since, well, the car jerks badly enough in turns at times to force disengagement if one is using two hands. I might have to try Not Doing That now.
This interstate has some major construction about six miles up with lanes splitting, sometimes disappearing, and forward-motion lanes suddenly becoming off-ramps. I don't know if it's just this trip, but I did the suggestions that the NAV proposed to see if it got into trouble. Strangely enough, it didn't. That's a first. Might just be good luck, but not bad if something in NAV vs. the autopilot got fixed somewhere.
On the dive into an off-ramp, the car, on previous NAV, before and after FSD-b, always drove into the offramp then turned sharply to follow the off-ramp. Humans are smoother. No obvious change with this release.. might have been a bit better, hard to tell.
Local roads, right turn at a light, light is green. Grabbed the center console. Right turns in the previous release were always better than the left turns, but, still, jerks sometimes would happen. This time, pretty blamed smooth going through the turn and it lined up better with the stripes when it did. However, the car still did its semi Mario Andretti imitation of zipping up to the local speed limit in a hurry. Might have been a little easier on the gas on that, hard to tell.
Then the Really Good One for this trip: There's this left turn at a blinking yellow traffic light. There's even a left turn lane, marked. In the previous release, the car would drift forward, then do Jerk City with the steering wheel in actually performing the left. This time: Let oncoming traffic go by, drifted forward a bit, then executed a clean left turn into the correct lane sans jerks. Whee!
Finally, there's this parking lot. Google Maps or whatever doesn't show the wooden post fence that stretches a hundred yards from left to right; people wanting to park have to turn right, go to the end of the fence, then turn left into the largish lot. NAV thinks one should turn left at the fence, then turn right at the supposed end of the fence, which is blocked off. On the previous release, the car would halt, twitch nervously, then usually turn right to go along the fence. About 15% of the time, it would have a brain freeze and get stuck. 69.2 got stuck and froze. We'll see how it does on later tries.
Then, there's the lot. It used to have striped parking lines everywhere. It would take a microscope to find them now. The previous release would have this several acre lot with no lines, even if NAV showed the correct place to go. It would get stuck with a "TAKE OVER NOW!" message.
69.2 just gets stuck without the panic message. Sigh.
So: Some improvement, nothing got much worse, some things got better. What I'm waiting for is tomorrow when this relatively narrow, two-lane road without markings gets traversed. Previous release liked going down the middle of the road when approaching a crest, not a good thing. Will be interesting if this release does better there.
Still: My usual one-way commute has between five and twenty Dings! to the cam reporter. This one had only four. And, at least, it looks like, for the moment, that the USB bug isn't active.
The bad news: Unprotected left turn with no stop signs and no traffic. Car crept up. Stopped. Crept up. And then, for 30 seconds, with an occasional quiver, stopped for good
. Gassed it and it did the left, but kept on trying to stop in the middle of the road. Ding! #1.Next, unprotected left turn but with marked lanes and a stop sign. Good, long wait for traffic to clear. Could see that creep line on the display. After a couple of minutes of cross traffic from both sides, there was a gap. It crept forward, and freaked out - the car coming from the right was getting Too Close. Gassed it, went through. Ding! #2.
Next: Unprotected left turn across crossing traffic on a wwiiiddde road. Sane humans hug the double-yellow (with gap) center line to let (potentially 2, but really) one lane of traffic through on the right. Car did what it did on the previous release: Turned right to block traffic coming up from the rear, then stopped to wait for oncoming traffic to clear. Sigh. Ding! #3.
Next: From on-ramp to busy semi-major local road. Got totally confused, didn't merge to the left when it shoulda, had to take control. Ding! #4.
No problems for the next couple-three miles, but it's never had problems on those miles. Now, the on-ramp to an interstate. Previous release: Jerky city. This release: Smooth as butter in the turn, except half-way through it told me to pay attention to the road. Not enough torque on the steering wheel, I guess. Still, a serious improvement. I've been in the habit over the past couple of months to put the left hand on the steering wheel and the right hand clutching the center console as a brace since, well, the car jerks badly enough in turns at times to force disengagement if one is using two hands. I might have to try Not Doing That now.
This interstate has some major construction about six miles up with lanes splitting, sometimes disappearing, and forward-motion lanes suddenly becoming off-ramps. I don't know if it's just this trip, but I did the suggestions that the NAV proposed to see if it got into trouble. Strangely enough, it didn't. That's a first. Might just be good luck, but not bad if something in NAV vs. the autopilot got fixed somewhere.
On the dive into an off-ramp, the car, on previous NAV, before and after FSD-b, always drove into the offramp then turned sharply to follow the off-ramp. Humans are smoother. No obvious change with this release.. might have been a bit better, hard to tell.
Local roads, right turn at a light, light is green. Grabbed the center console. Right turns in the previous release were always better than the left turns, but, still, jerks sometimes would happen. This time, pretty blamed smooth going through the turn and it lined up better with the stripes when it did. However, the car still did its semi Mario Andretti imitation of zipping up to the local speed limit in a hurry. Might have been a little easier on the gas on that, hard to tell.
Then the Really Good One for this trip: There's this left turn at a blinking yellow traffic light. There's even a left turn lane, marked. In the previous release, the car would drift forward, then do Jerk City with the steering wheel in actually performing the left. This time: Let oncoming traffic go by, drifted forward a bit, then executed a clean left turn into the correct lane sans jerks. Whee!
Finally, there's this parking lot. Google Maps or whatever doesn't show the wooden post fence that stretches a hundred yards from left to right; people wanting to park have to turn right, go to the end of the fence, then turn left into the largish lot. NAV thinks one should turn left at the fence, then turn right at the supposed end of the fence, which is blocked off. On the previous release, the car would halt, twitch nervously, then usually turn right to go along the fence. About 15% of the time, it would have a brain freeze and get stuck. 69.2 got stuck and froze. We'll see how it does on later tries.
Then, there's the lot. It used to have striped parking lines everywhere. It would take a microscope to find them now. The previous release would have this several acre lot with no lines, even if NAV showed the correct place to go. It would get stuck with a "TAKE OVER NOW!" message.
69.2 just gets stuck without the panic message. Sigh.
So: Some improvement, nothing got much worse, some things got better. What I'm waiting for is tomorrow when this relatively narrow, two-lane road without markings gets traversed. Previous release liked going down the middle of the road when approaching a crest, not a good thing. Will be interesting if this release does better there.
Still: My usual one-way commute has between five and twenty Dings! to the cam reporter. This one had only four. And, at least, it looks like, for the moment, that the USB bug isn't active.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
I haven't made this claim. Just the closest two lanes need to be clear, unless traffic in the other lanes gives me a bad feeling. (And there are different timing conditions on the second lane when determining if it is "clear.")like @AlanSubie4Life said, maybe it's safer to wait for all lanes of traffic to be clear before proceeding
JoshFalken
Member
Most are painted with three white arrows. Not the entire hump, just where you should go over it on your side of the lane. I think the 2 were missed because it couldn’t seem them quickly enough (curve/trailer). The 3rd, it did slow down but not until I was already over it with my front tires, I count that as a failure.
NOTE FOR CLARITY: Humps not bumps
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AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
No, that means you're not looking at the road sufficiently for its liking. Not the steering torque. Can happen on turns if you're not looking ahead like you normally would if you're not using FSD Beta (something to be careful about - should be looking in the direction of movement, and it is sometimes easy to get focused on checking for traffic being clear/coming from other directions, since there's a natural tendency to let FSD Beta handle the "forward" part - don't do this of course!)
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yeah i can maybe excuse a full on 90 degree turn in an unmarked residential zone. this is a 2-lane road separated by a double yellow. it's winding left and right. there's no reason to ever use a turn signal on this road unless you're trying to get off the road.
Silicon Desert
Well-Known Member
YES this ^^^ or the car thinks it can't negotiate the turn for some reason and chooses to disengage. I've had this happen on roundabouts in the past.
Upgraded from 10.69.1.1 to 10.69.2 first thing this morning. Went out testing. Experience was very similar to 10.69.1.1. I did not do a bunch of UPLs yet, concentrating on basic driving around.
Worst items:
Unlined residential streets are virtually undriveable if there is any oncoming traffic. beta slows down and stops for the the other car even when there is plenty of room to pass. Wider residential streets work OK, but beta still tends to slow significantly. This was not previously an issue. I'm not referring to streets like Chuck Cooks narrow street videos, but for streets a bit wider where there is plenty of room for two cars to pass without concern. This is really bad and I'll probably not engage in a residential area until next version.
Beta still slows to much for a lead car slowing to make a turn. It seems better than 10.12.2 (wishful thinking?) but still seems to overreact. Beta even slows for cars moving into turn lanes that present no danger to it.
Roundabouts are just unacceptable. Beta usually, but not always, stops at an entry yield sign even with no traffic in the roundabout. I did have one case where it correctly slowed, then entered, so I don't think that beta is treating the yield as a stop, but simply stops because it doesn't know yet that the way is clear. I didn't even try the mini-roundabouts in my neighborhood. They didn't work on 10.69.1.1 and see nothing to indicate improvement on 10.69.2.
The one regular UPL I tested failed. This was an extended UPL at a couplet with a short (50ft) connector road between the couplet. beta did manage, with some lateral jerking, to navigate to the far cross street, but started to enter the cross street when the road was not clear. Maybe it would have stopped, but I took no chance and hit the brakes. This is a difficult UPL for beta and it's never been able to execute it correctly. It's getting better, but still has a ways to go.
I had a few minor PB events on a 60 mph 2-lane highway.
There was no interaction with pedestrians, so cannot comment on the overreaction to them reported by others.
Best improvement:
Beta did not make incorrect lane shifts into mid-block turn lanes as has been habit on 10.12.2. It passed up a turnout that it reliably failed on previous versions without any indication of wanting to change lanes. Bravo!
The few forward UPLs that I drove were perfectly executed.
I tried to get the car to misidentify some heat reflections on a 2 lane highway as closer cars. It never did, despite some significant reflections of cars. In one case, My eyes could see four separate reflections off the same car ahead, but beta showed no false vehicles on the display. Separate from this, I used NOA on some rolling hills and got a definite mirage-based phantom braking event. I could clearly see a false car and a narrow vertical object (motorcycle of pedestrian?) that was shaded dark coincident with hard braking. I assume that NOA does not benefit from recent occupancy network improvements.
Worst items:
Unlined residential streets are virtually undriveable if there is any oncoming traffic. beta slows down and stops for the the other car even when there is plenty of room to pass. Wider residential streets work OK, but beta still tends to slow significantly. This was not previously an issue. I'm not referring to streets like Chuck Cooks narrow street videos, but for streets a bit wider where there is plenty of room for two cars to pass without concern. This is really bad and I'll probably not engage in a residential area until next version.
Beta still slows to much for a lead car slowing to make a turn. It seems better than 10.12.2 (wishful thinking?) but still seems to overreact. Beta even slows for cars moving into turn lanes that present no danger to it.
Roundabouts are just unacceptable. Beta usually, but not always, stops at an entry yield sign even with no traffic in the roundabout. I did have one case where it correctly slowed, then entered, so I don't think that beta is treating the yield as a stop, but simply stops because it doesn't know yet that the way is clear. I didn't even try the mini-roundabouts in my neighborhood. They didn't work on 10.69.1.1 and see nothing to indicate improvement on 10.69.2.
The one regular UPL I tested failed. This was an extended UPL at a couplet with a short (50ft) connector road between the couplet. beta did manage, with some lateral jerking, to navigate to the far cross street, but started to enter the cross street when the road was not clear. Maybe it would have stopped, but I took no chance and hit the brakes. This is a difficult UPL for beta and it's never been able to execute it correctly. It's getting better, but still has a ways to go.
I had a few minor PB events on a 60 mph 2-lane highway.
There was no interaction with pedestrians, so cannot comment on the overreaction to them reported by others.
Best improvement:
Beta did not make incorrect lane shifts into mid-block turn lanes as has been habit on 10.12.2. It passed up a turnout that it reliably failed on previous versions without any indication of wanting to change lanes. Bravo!
The few forward UPLs that I drove were perfectly executed.
I tried to get the car to misidentify some heat reflections on a 2 lane highway as closer cars. It never did, despite some significant reflections of cars. In one case, My eyes could see four separate reflections off the same car ahead, but beta showed no false vehicles on the display. Separate from this, I used NOA on some rolling hills and got a definite mirage-based phantom braking event. I could clearly see a false car and a narrow vertical object (motorcycle of pedestrian?) that was shaded dark coincident with hard braking. I assume that NOA does not benefit from recent occupancy network improvements.
FloridaJohn
Member
I received an update this morning as well.
I let the car drive me to work, and then home again at lunch. I only have a 5 mile commute.
Overall, as others have reported, the car drives smoother and more confidently than in the previous version. I thought I might make it all the way to work without major intervention, but it got confused on a small roundabout and I had to take over. I took over again shortly after, but it made it 75% of the way there without major problems. The car has never been able to drive my commute to date, but is improving.
On the way home for lunch, it couldn't handle a very difficult four-way stop (humans have trouble with it, so not surprised). The roundabout it couldn't handle this morning was flawless on the way home. However, right after it exited the roundabout, it turned on the left turn signal and came to a stop (it was supposed to go straight ahead). Not sure what that was about, never had that happen before. I drove myself back to work after lunch.
There were about four interventions necessary for each direction, but much better than before. It handled all the "T" intersections well, and even saw the creep line a few times.
FSD's main problem (IMO) continues to be lack of object permanence. As soon as it can't see something it forgets it's there. I know this is something they are working on, but it does make things more difficult. Maybe the computing horsepower is not there for the many objects that have to be tracked simultaneously.
I let the car drive me to work, and then home again at lunch. I only have a 5 mile commute.
Overall, as others have reported, the car drives smoother and more confidently than in the previous version. I thought I might make it all the way to work without major intervention, but it got confused on a small roundabout and I had to take over. I took over again shortly after, but it made it 75% of the way there without major problems. The car has never been able to drive my commute to date, but is improving.
On the way home for lunch, it couldn't handle a very difficult four-way stop (humans have trouble with it, so not surprised). The roundabout it couldn't handle this morning was flawless on the way home. However, right after it exited the roundabout, it turned on the left turn signal and came to a stop (it was supposed to go straight ahead). Not sure what that was about, never had that happen before. I drove myself back to work after lunch.
There were about four interventions necessary for each direction, but much better than before. It handled all the "T" intersections well, and even saw the creep line a few times.
FSD's main problem (IMO) continues to be lack of object permanence. As soon as it can't see something it forgets it's there. I know this is something they are working on, but it does make things more difficult. Maybe the computing horsepower is not there for the many objects that have to be tracked simultaneously.
I guess one upside of the long span since the last update is that I have a big mental list of all the places FSDb performs well, performs erratically, and the places I don’t even bother enabling.
So far the +ve outweighs the -ve but I suspect some of the random acts of craziness are still there.
So far the +ve outweighs the -ve but I suspect some of the random acts of craziness are still there.
Unprotected turns seem to require all lanes to be clear before committing. On a busy three lane artery, this can be a rare event. beta needs to ignore traffic in the far left lane when it is turning into the far right lane.
An AI can do pretty well but there's no substitute for better resolution, as that ability would extend detection range further.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
All problems solved by just keeping that accelerator pressed when it makes sense, or you think FSD Beta will be weird! Advanced technique on the highway PB events is to predict when they're going to happen and power through them selectively.
Always be accelerating (when appropriate and safe). It really makes FSD Beta a dream. I should definitely make a YouTube video.
Pressing the accelerator is a mitigation, not a solution.
Silicon Desert
Well-Known Member
Uh, are you sure the problem isn't because the pillar camera can't see past a car on your left? Especially if that car is beside or slightly ahead of you? I have noticed this problem and when I look at the pillar cam, it couldn't see traffic beyond the car on my left.
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