FSD Beta 10.69

[Misterbee]

Yes. The time to disengage is before the wheel turns. If you just want to “see what happens” that is different and is still an option in carefully chosen scenarios with no other vehicles. But after the wheel turns significantly is not when you try to disengage. At most it should get a little jerk and, then shut off.

FSD is not driving for us. We’re driving. (A lot of confusion about this and I am not sure why.) So it is important to steer the car!

While I agree with the sentiment, I have a feeling that people are getting confused about who is driving simply because the feature has been named “Full Self Driving“. Love the software, hate the name.

 

[Dewg]

More like 136 pages.

Don’t forget: And scoring free beers with a little perspicacity.

+10 points for use of the word perspicacity.

 

[Alset2]

So I have been got behind in this thread a bit so if this has been mentioned, I apologize...

I dont voice many complaints much especially when they are mostly covered well in this thread, but does any one else have issue with the lack of turn signal until about 100ft from the turn? Doesn't matter if I'm on a back road going 30mph or a divided highway going 65mph...I dont get a turn signal until about 100ft before the turn.
What I do get is a bunch of horn honks as people go by me (and I cant say I blame them).
And then to balance the scales I guess, I also get the random turn signal where they are not needed....maybe that is to make up for the short signal I get when actually turning???

 

[Dewg]

So I have been got behind in this thread a bit so if this has been mentioned, I apologize...

I dont voice many complaints much especially when they are mostly covered well in this thread, but does any one else have issue with the lack of turn signal until about 100ft from the turn? Doesn't matter if I'm on a back road going 30mph or a divided highway going 65mph...I dont get a turn signal until about 100ft before the turn.
What I do get is a bunch of horn honks as people go by me (and I cant say I blame them).
And then to balance the scales I guess, I also get the random turn signal where they are not needed....maybe that is to make up for the short signal I get when actually turning???

Currently Tesla is following the law as closely as they can, and traffic laws in most states require a turn signal at 100 feet before a turn or lane change. Is it courteous to other drivers? That's debatable - especially where I live and people forget they have turn signals at all.... However, for now it's following the traffic laws in that regard. In the future that may change and the amount of time is extended.

You can always send an e-mail to the fsdbeta group and ask for them to extend the distance. Perhaps if enough people do so, it will be included in a future update.

As for random turn signals, yes - the car seems to engage the turn signals on sharp turns, even when there is no intersection or lane change. It may be some sort of g-force/delta code that detects rapid positional changes and engages the signals. I have not experienced this in quite a while, but my area (suburbs) doesn't have sharp, windy roads. Even residential neighborhoods where a road makes a 90 degree turn, my signals don't come on.

 

[Mardak]

Any guesses to where FSD Beta 10.69.2.2 decided was driveable space for this right turn?

 

[Daniel in SD]

Currently Tesla is following the law as closely as they can, and traffic laws in most states require a turn signal at 100 feet before a turn or lane change. Is it courteous to other drivers? That's debatable - especially where I live and people forget they have turn signals at all.... However, for now it's following the traffic laws in that regard. In the future that may change and the amount of time is extended.

You can always send an e-mail to the fsdbeta group and ask for them to extend the distance. Perhaps if enough people do so, it will be included in a future update.

As for random turn signals, yes - the car seems to engage the turn signals on sharp turns, even when there is no intersection or lane change. It may be some sort of g-force/delta code that detects rapid positional changes and engages the signals. I have not experienced this in quite a while, but my area (suburbs) doesn't have sharp, windy roads. Even residential neighborhoods where a road makes a 90 degree turn, my signals don't come on.

It sounds like they need to read the next line of the traffic code which says you need to signal before slowing down.

"No person shall stop or suddenly decrease the speed of a
vehicle on a highway without first giving an appropriate signal in
the manner provided in this chapter to the driver of any vehicle
immediately to the rear when there is opportunity to give the signal."

 

[Dewg]

Any guesses to where FSD Beta 10.69.2.2 decided was driveable space for this right turn?

View attachment 855693

Did you report it when it went for the dirt? In the future, when you encounter very poorly marked roads, make sure you disengage before the turn and make the turn manually, then re-engage.

 

[Supcom]

Currently Tesla is following the law as closely as they can, and traffic laws in most states require a turn signal at 100 feet before a turn or lane change. Is it courteous to other drivers? That's debatable - especially where I live and people forget they have turn signals at all.... However, for now it's following the traffic laws in that regard. In the future that may change and the amount of time is extended.

You can always send an e-mail to the fsdbeta group and ask for them to extend the distance. Perhaps if enough people do so, it will be included in a future update.

As for random turn signals, yes - the car seems to engage the turn signals on sharp turns, even when there is no intersection or lane change. It may be some sort of g-force/delta code that detects rapid positional changes and engages the signals. I have not experienced this in quite a while, but my area (suburbs) doesn't have sharp, windy roads. Even residential neighborhoods where a road makes a 90 degree turn, my signals don't come on.

Texas requires continuous signally beginning no less than 100 ft from the turn. Most likely the same in other states. So, Tesla is compliant with that.

Based on observations of most other drivers, signaling turns and lane changes must be optional, even discouraged.

 

[Supcom]

It sounds like they need to read the next line of the traffic code which says you need to signal before slowing down.

"No person shall stop or suddenly decrease the speed of a
vehicle on a highway without first giving an appropriate signal in
the manner provided in this chapter to the driver of any vehicle
immediately to the rear when there is opportunity to give the signal."

Brake lights constitute a signal.

 

[bubbyo]

concerning 69.2.2. for me, it’s not working as well as 10.12.2 within my neighborhood. seems fine on 4/6 lane divided highways. problems within my neighborhood include…

- driving in the middle of the road on non-lined 2 lane roads. stays there way too long even when a car is approaching from the other direction
- slowing down or stopping for practically every pedestrian on the sidewalk adjacent to the 2 lane road i’m on
- taking turns way too wide (scaring cars approaching from other direction)
- creeps way too long into an intersection, before going, with no cars approaching from either direction
- creeps way too far into an intersection when cars ARE approaching and it can’t safely make the turn
- problem that just occured… i’m at a 4 way stop, intending to go straight, there’s a car stopped to my left and a car stopped approaching me. my car stopped then decided to go, as it should have. the car to my left stayed, allowing me to go. the car approaching also started through the intersection. about halfway through the intersection my steering wheel turned hard left scaring the c#@p out of the approaching car. obviously, i intervened and disingaged but wonder if it actually would have continued to turn in front of the oncoming approaching car

wondering if others are seeing any of these issues?

 

[Dewg]

It sounds like they need to read the next line of the traffic code which says you need to signal before slowing down.

"No person shall stop or suddenly decrease the speed of a
vehicle on a highway without first giving an appropriate signal in
the manner provided in this chapter to the driver of any vehicle
immediately to the rear when there is opportunity to give the signal."

Agreed. I'll keep an eye out for those situations where a turn is coming up and the car suddenly decreases speed without signaling. Currently my car always slows down gently and moves to the right in advance of the turn. If it were to suddenly slow down (aggressive braking), that would be unsettling for the people behind me.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Brake lights constitute a signal.

Yep, I didn't notice that the section includes braking signals.
Regardless, it is polite and as far as I can tell perfectly legal to signal your intentions throughout the entire maneuver.

 

[Dewg]

Yep, I didn't notice that the section includes braking signals.
Regardless, it is polite and as far as I can tell perfectly legal to signal your intentions throughout the entire maneuver.

I don't think anyone is arguing it's polite. I think it's an item that will be addressed later as the software becomes more feature complete. There are lots of edge cases, such as retail driveway entrances that are right before an intersection. Does the car engage signals 300 feet before the turn, and cause a car coming out of that driveway to think it can turn right?

 

[Daniel in SD]

I don't think anyone is arguing it's polite. I think it's an item that will be addressed later as the software becomes more feature complete. There are lots of edge cases, such as retail driveway entrances that are right before an intersection. Does the car engage signals 300 feet before the turn, and cause a car coming out of that driveway to think it can turn right?

That's a very good point. It can be dangerous to signal turns when they could be misinterpreted by another driver. Driving is hard!
They should only activate the rear turn signals early.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Full Self Driving

I interpret the “Self” as “Myself” I guess.

It sounds like they need to read the next line of the traffic code which says you need to signal before slowing down.

"No person shall stop or suddenly decrease the speed of a
vehicle on a highway without first giving an appropriate signal in
the manner provided in this chapter to the driver of any vehicle
immediately to the rear when there is opportunity to give the signal."

Oh good the traffic code makes sense. Thanks for looking it up. I will resume my reporting every time it slows down before signaling. Which is nearly always.

 

[Dewg]

I interpret the “Self” as “Myself” I guess.

Oh good the traffic code makes sense. Thanks for looking it up. I will resume my reporting every time it slows down before signaling. Which is nearly always.

FSD Beta 10.69

Yes. The time to disengage is before the wheel turns. If you just want to “see what happens” that is different and is still an option in carefully chosen scenarios with no other vehicles. But after the wheel turns significantly is not when you try to disengage. At most it should get a...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[TS.42]

concerning 69.2.2. for me, it’s not working as well as 10.12.2 within my neighborhood. seems fine on 4/6 lane divided highways. problems within my neighborhood include…

- driving in the middle of the road on non-lined 2 lane roads. stays there way too long even when a car is approaching from the other direction
- slowing down or stopping for practically every pedestrian on the sidewalk adjacent to the 2 lane road i’m on
- taking turns way too wide (scaring cars approaching from other direction)
- creeps way too long into an intersection, before going, with no cars approaching from either direction
- creeps way too far into an intersection when cars ARE approaching and it can’t safely make the turn
- problem that just occured… i’m at a 4 way stop, intending to go straight, there’s a car stopped to my left and a car stopped approaching me. my car stopped then decided to go, as it should have. the car to my left stayed, allowing me to go. the car approaching also started through the intersection. about halfway through the intersection my steering wheel turned hard left scaring the c#@p out of the approaching car. obviously, i intervened and disingaged but wonder if it actually would have continued to turn in front of the oncoming approaching car

wondering if others are seeing any of these issues?

Same exact issues for me.

 

[Fiver]

So I have been got behind in this thread a bit so if this has been mentioned, I apologize...

I dont voice many complaints much especially when they are mostly covered well in this thread, but does any one else have issue with the lack of turn signal until about 100ft from the turn? Doesn't matter if I'm on a back road going 30mph or a divided highway going 65mph...I dont get a turn signal until about 100ft before the turn.
What I do get is a bunch of horn honks as people go by me (and I cant say I blame them).
And then to balance the scales I guess, I also get the random turn signal where they are not needed....maybe that is to make up for the short signal I get when actually turning???

Yes, the turn signal "issue" has been extensively discussed. Sure it's operating within the law, but it could go a bit beyond for added safety. I agree it comes on way too late.

 

[tivoboy]

I’ve commented on this before, RIGHT SIDE BIAS or FAR AWAY FROM MEDIAN when driving in urban areas at least.. does anyone else see this and or does anyone know is this an FSD interpretation issue, or camera placement or camera alignment issue? Would it be FRONT camera? I’ve tried recalibrating the cameras several times in the past 10 months since starting the beta, it’s always the same.

This is an image of the car driving, I let it drive for about 1/4 mile to settle and then came to a stop, got out to capture it’s offset from the middle yellow double lines. You can imagine what this is like for cars parked on the RIGHT or driving past cars parked on the right, it normally drives about 18 inches (or sometimes less!) from a parked car on the right side of the road. Too close IMHO and makes for a lot of ping ponging right, then left, then right to give at least SOME room to the cars on the ride side of the road.

 

[aronth5]

So I have been got behind in this thread a bit so if this has been mentioned, I apologize...

I dont voice many complaints much especially when they are mostly covered well in this thread, but does any one else have issue with the lack of turn signal until about 100ft from the turn? Doesn't matter if I'm on a back road going 30mph or a divided highway going 65mph...I dont get a turn signal until about 100ft before the turn.
What I do get is a bunch of horn honks as people go by me (and I cant say I blame them).
And then to balance the scales I guess, I also get the random turn signal where they are not needed....maybe that is to make up for the short signal I get when actually turning???

I agree. I would like Tesla to initiate the turn signal sooner.
It would also be nice stop signaling turn on when entering a sharp turn. Happens to me every day at a particularly tight curve. Didn't happen 6 months ago.