FSD Beta 10.69

[AlanSubie4Life]

My update with 10.69.25.2 is that it seems to be nearly exactly the same as 10.69.25.1. Not surprisingly - it probably is! Behaved the same way in all the test locations, within expected variation.

After a bit more time with this, I think I would say it might be slightly better at stopping now. It can still have very rough stops (so there is overlap on the behaviors of this versus prior version, given expected variation), but they seem less frequent so far. Maybe they tweaked the parameters to make ringing slightly less likely. Have to use it more, I guess, to see if I have just gotten lucky. But it is so unpleasant- and can’t use with anyone else in the car.

I should post some largely successful videos of my test run. Might have been as low as three interventions in five minutes! But not much fun to post videos of FSDb performing decently…

Otherwise I haven’t seen any serious regressions. Plenty of failures of course.

When the road is marked, I wish it would stay closer to the center line and further from parked cars. It’s like it just wants to knock someone’s door off, or hit an animal coming out from between/under the cars. Nothing new though.

 

[Mardak]

When the road is marked, I wish it would stay closer to the center line and further from parked cars

FSD Beta does shift over for parked cars especially larger ones that are on the line. Earlier today when FSD Beta would error with "Take Over Immediately," I ended up switching to a profile with just plain Autosteer without FSD Beta toggled, and the experience is no biasing for these parked cars and very strictly staying in the center of two lines. So in that sense, it's already much improved but sounds like you would want even more offsetting maybe even crossing over the center line?

Separately, this FSD Beta failing to have a predicted path but still showing the road and objects seems to suggest potential for redundancy:

Where one part of FSD Beta is working fine and another doesn't, and currently it just has the human take over. However, assuming it was a failure in one of the two nodes, e.g., node A for moving objects + road layout while node B handles the blue path, potentially one node could take over with a simplified object and path prediction for redundancy to maintain safety while the failed node restarts.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

So in that sense, it's already much improved but sounds like you would want even more offsetting maybe even crossing over the center line?

I just want it to drive in the correct place. Doesn’t need to be over the line but may as well be close if there is no oncoming traffic! Just need to duplicate safe human driving. Not too difficult.

This is in a situation where there is a clear area for cars to park.

Why not be close to the yellow line? Actually some of the time oncoming traffic is not even a concern:

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

maps.app.goo.gl

There is no reason to be close enough that you have to think about whether a door would hit your car if it were opened all the way (it might not, but why cut it close).

Another example:

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

maps.app.goo.gl

It does not snuggle up to the yellow line, and then gradually retreat from it slightly if there is oncoming traffic. It is a bit odd.

If there weren’t any parked cars it would probably drive even further to the right!!! Insanity.

I’m not confident that v11 will solve these most basic faults in driving behavior. It sometimes seems like they are just programming in what is easiest ( drive in the middle of available space) without regard for what is the correct behavior.

This is also why I think it’s funny that people think the merging and forking swerving issues will be solved in v11. Every piece of evidence currently suggests otherwise. It’s not a hard problem for a human, but no one at Tesla wants to produce a solution.

Maybe they abandoned v10 development a year ago, and they have changed everything and fixed everything in v11? I guess it is possible.

 

[sleepydoc]

Yes it would be nice if with rock solid attentiveness you could drive wheel torque reminders to zero.

It’s a little hard to tell if it is only being used as a negative control though. You should expect a nag if it detects you are not paying attention, so not sure what this even means (assuming no false positives for inattention). I agree that if the system detects extreme consistent attentiveness with no screen interaction it should not nag, but it seems to nag occasionally in such a scenario even outside of low confidence situations.

It will be good when paying attention to the road provides an alternative means of clearing a wheel-torque nag (rather than just clearing pay-attention nags).

Had another great example driving home from work this morning. FSDb engaged, stopped at a light waiting to turn left. The light turns green, the car proceeds with the turn while I keep an eye on things and before the car even clears the intersection it’s beeping at me to tug the wheel. (To be clear, before the turn my eyes were focused forward as well.)

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Had another great example driving home from work this morning. FSDb engaged, stopped at a light waiting to turn left. The light turns green, the car proceeds with the turn while I keep an eye on things and before the car even clears the intersection it’s beeping at me to tug the wheel. (To be clear, before the turn my eyes were focused forward as well.)

Hard to understand without video.

 

[sleepydoc]

Hard to understand without video.

There’s not much to understand. FSDb engaged, pulls up to red light and waits for it to turn green. The light turns green and before the car has made it through the intersection the computer has not only started flashing the blue ‘pay attention’ screen but started beeping, despite me looking forward (or slightly to the left) the entire time.

Seriously, do you need a video for everything?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

There’s not much to understand. FSDb engaged, pulls up to red light and waits for it to turn green. The light turns green and before the car has made it through the intersection the computer has not only started flashing the blue ‘pay attention’ screen but started beeping, despite me looking forward (or slightly to the left) the entire time.

Seriously, do you need a video for everything?

Yes. I’m a visual learner.

Just wonder when it started. Etc.

Also there is the question of the beeping and why that occurred (I’ve never heard beeping in the sequence - though obviously it has beeped at me about putting hands on the wheel out of sequence, but that is totally different and of course has nothing to do with paying attention or keeping hands on the wheel).

You know what they say about pictures (and so imagine videos!).

 

[sleepydoc]

Twice in the last 2 days I’ve had FSD try to run red lights. Last night, going straight through an intersection after dark so there was no ambiguity as to the color of the lights, then this morning turning left at a different intersection. What was interesting this morning was when I looked at the visualization it appeared to show an extra light that was green. Below is an image of the screen and a google streets view of the intersection. (It’s blurry, but you can see the corner light that FSD was mistaking in my photo. Not only was there clearly no green light, but it’s turned 90º to face the cross street. Interestingly, I just noticed that one of the other lights for traffic heading straight was also depicted as green

 

[sleepydoc]

Yes. I’m a visual learner.

Just wonder when it started. Etc.

Also there is the question of the beeping and why that occurred (I’ve never heard beeping in the sequence - though obviously it has beeped at me about putting hands on the wheel out of sequence, but that is totally different and of course has nothing to do with paying attention or keeping hands on the wheel).

You know what they say about pictures (and so imagine videos!).

It started after the car started to move. The beeping occurred because the car didn't think I was paying attention. I looked at the screen because I thought it was alerting for something else and I saw the blue screen flashing.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Twice in the last 2 days I’ve had FSD try to run red lights. Last night, going straight through an intersection after dark so there was no ambiguity as to the color of the lights, then this morning turning left at a different intersection. What was interesting this morning was when I looked at the visualization it appeared to show an extra light that was green. Below is an image of the screen and a google streets view of the intersection. (It’s blurry, but you can see the corner light that FSD was mistaking in my photo. Not only was there clearly no green light, but it’s turned 90º to face the cross street. Interestingly, I just noticed that one of the other lights for traffic heading straight was also depicted as green

View attachment 905723View attachment 905732

Yeah pretty common.

Practically speaking not an issue since it’s so rare that things would ever get to this point, anyway. (I virtually never have FSD engaged when I get up to a red light.)

So some risk, but not a lot. One of the reasons FSDb is so safe!

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

It started after the car started to move. The beeping occurred because the car didn't think I was paying attention. I looked at the screen because I thought it was alerting for something else and I saw the blue screen flashing.

Not sure if this is relevant. It would suggest it took 24 seconds for you to get through the intersection. (Obviously not the case.)

Just adding to this: It’s quite common for the car to beep at you to apply turning force to the wheel when turning even when you are applying turning force or were just doing so (presumably any such necessity would override the normal blue-flash sequence). It’s possible that is what was happening here, but not necessarily, as it could have been the sequence too. Which is the reason I asked about video, of course.

 

[Reddy Kilowatt]

I have a question about FSD and the Nav maps. Typically I set my work destination when just outside my house. before we had the option to pick the proper route I used to add a Starbucks as a stop then delete it once I passed the turn for the wrong way to work. I may or may not actually go to Starbucks.

This morning I added Starbucks to the route. I had already ordered coffee with the app. I go to add it and walla it and another store I go to are at the top of the list? I haven't been there for a month. Now what really got weird was I went downtown 20-30 miles away. I'm heading back to the office and decide to order a salad with my Wegmans app. I order the salad, and go to add the stop when I'm twenty miles away and look what's on the top of the list Wegman's. Starbucks is gone.

Do we have Apple and Tesla spying on us knowing since that app was recently used there is a probability that I'll be heading to that store? It was to easy to add those destinations.

 

[valem]

You know what they say about pictures (and so imagine videos!).

It all depends on the number of frames per second... is each frame worth 1000 words?

 

[valem]

Not sure if this is relevant. It would suggest it took 24 seconds for you to get through the intersection. (Obviously not the case.)

Just adding to this: It’s quite common for the car to beep at you to apply turning force to the wheel when turning even when you are applying turning force or were just doing so (presumably any such necessity would override the normal blue-flash sequence). It’s possible that is what was happening here, but not necessarily, as it could have been the sequence too. Which is the reason I asked about video, of course.

In this video the first "apply turning force" message appears at 1:59 and the beeping is at 2:14

https://twitter.com/x/status/1620821785347526659

 

[thewishmaster]

Anybody else's 10.69.25.2 blue planned path disappearing? Seems like some logic crashed or got stuck specific to the path planning, so visualization of the road and objects are fine. If Autosteer is active, e.g., exiting a highway, FSD Beta tries to take over for city streets and realizes there's a fault and shows the big red steering wheel with "Take Over Immediately."

View attachment 905072

This happened to me one day last week and this morning but should go away after some time. Maybe it's something related to remote configurations for shadow mode testing?

Haven’t seen this, but the other day I had the opposite issue where everything except my car and the blue line disappeared. No issue with FSDb continuing to work and I could pan the view around without issue. The blue line froze too. The normal visualizations returned a few minutes later.

 

[MP3Mike]

Do we have Apple and Tesla spying on us knowing since that app was recently used there is a probability that I'll be heading to that store? It was to easy to add those destinations.

I don't think Tesla has any idea what you have ordered, but they do keep track of which places you have navigated to in the past, and put those toward the top of the list. I'm not sure what all they track, but they for sure track which day of the week, and maybe the time.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

In this video the first "apply turning force" message appears at 1:59 and the beeping is at 2:14

https://twitter.com/x/status/1620821785347526659

Right. So does not make any sense as described (super obvious flashing would have started far earlier), except for the caveats as described above.

Anyway that is why video is needed unless the written description is super super precise.

Unless it was one of the caveats, the car must have been flashing before the turn began, in order to be beeping when exiting the intersection. The original description makes it sound like the car suddenly started beeping (which does happen, see caveats), but that does not just happen like that (except for the caveats).

I would guess the car either threw the sudden “grab the wheel” beep (very low confidence), or it had been obviously flashing for a long long time.

It definitely would be nice to get rid of the latter, when the driver is paying 100% attention with hands on wheel. It’s tricky because it’s important to be ready to provide steering input. (Hence why I’d like them to look for hands on the wheel (which is quite possible even though they cannot see the hands or the wheel).)

 

[Reddy Kilowatt]

I don't think Tesla has any idea what you have ordered, but they do keep track of which places you have navigated to in the past, and put those toward the top of the list. I'm not sure what all they track, but they for sure track which day of the week, and maybe the time.

I would agree but this was totally out of left field that I went there from a remote site. Yes I'm sure they don't care what I get but the destination. I just wonder if I launch an App, the Tesla app know to place my Favorite locations at or near the top. Both times this was at the top of the list.

Tomorrow I'll do something different and see if it pops that location up.

 

[aronth5]

I don't think Tesla has any idea what you have ordered, but they do keep track of which places you have navigated to in the past, and put those toward the top of the list. I'm not sure what all they track, but they for sure track which day of the week, and maybe the time.

This has definitely improved over time. I have noticed Tesla increasingly shows the correct destination first in the list depending on the day and time. And my calendar is not synched.

 

[Ramphex]

Dem boiz