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^ IMO this is totally correct. And exactly why we need updated laws with more reasonable requirements for autonomous vehicles. I'd suggest something like requiring always slowing to 5 mph at all stop signs, and slowing to 1 mph if any pedestrians or bikes are present in the areas.

That kind of policy would be difficult for humans to follow and difficult to enforce, but relatively easy for tech companies to be compliant with and easy to test.
It’s weird that we have so many stop signs and they are so overused that we are contemplating things like this. Could just go the European and Asian route — rip out all the stop signs entirely and use other ways of controlling intersections and slowing down traffic, but then actually enforce the traffic laws strictly.

US traffic deaths per 100,000: 12.9
Germany: 3.7
UK: 2.9

I haven’t driven in Germany but they have the autobahn there. I don’t think I saw a single stop sign in the UK, and it was very pleasant to drive around. Adjusting stop sign behavior is one thing but I hope we can really rethink how we handle roads and traffic here.
 
It’s weird that we have so many stop signs and they are so overused that we are contemplating things like this. Could just go the European and Asian route — rip out all the stop signs entirely and use other ways of controlling intersections and slowing down traffic, but then actually enforce the traffic laws strictly.

US traffic deaths per 100,000: 12.9
Germany: 3.7
UK: 2.9

I haven’t driven in Germany but they have the autobahn there. I don’t think I saw a single stop sign in the UK, and it was very pleasant to drive around. Adjusting stop sign behavior is one thing but I hope we can really rethink how we handle roads and traffic here.
The start with practical and theoretical training before you can get your license. It runs around $2000 to get the required training. The thing about driving in Germany is not the roads, they are actually narrower, but they all drive by the same rules because training.
 
The start with practical and theoretical training before you can get your license. It runs around $2000 to get the required training. The thing about driving in Germany is not the roads, they are actually narrower, but they all drive by the same rules because training.
They also have stronger Beer 🍺, which is a good thing 👍, just not when driving
 
Decided to let my FSD subscription lapse to get onto the production branch for the first time since 10.3.x

I'm visiting Phoenix and Colorado a lot this summer and figured that the A/C improvements would be worth it rather than waiting around for 12.4.x; in my areas 12.3.6 has performed just fine and I'm okay with waiting to get a stable version on production.
 
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It’s weird that we have so many stop signs and they are so overused that we are contemplating things like this. Could just go the European and Asian route — rip out all the stop signs entirely and use other ways of controlling intersections and slowing down traffic, but then actually enforce the traffic laws strictly.

US traffic deaths per 100,000: 12.9
Germany: 3.7
UK: 2.9

I haven’t driven in Germany but they have the autobahn there. I don’t think I saw a single stop sign in the UK, and it was very pleasant to drive around. Adjusting stop sign behavior is one thing but I hope we can really rethink how we handle roads and traffic here.
If trained horses can do it without stop signs, trained robot axis ought to be able as well. Or not....

 
The NHTSA’s attention was caught by people submitting complaints, the organization itself is largely reactionary and relies heavily on owner/user complaints. Some people didn’t like that the system was doing illegal things while they were responsible for what it was doing, maybe some were ticketed or warned.

Even for big mechanical issues, the NHTSA doesn’t know about problems until they are brought to their attention by owners, dealerships, suppliers, the manufacturer, etc.
I don't disagree but when NHTSA investigates and sees how egregious the rolling stops were that isn't helpful. I know several people who reported this to NHTSA who specifically mentioned the rolling speed is what got their attention in the first place.
 
Bad day for FSD for me.

I have had FSD for almost 18 months and have the same 15 minute drive to work on the same route. There is a stop sign on a access road with barely any traffic and today for the first time it ran that stop sign...didn't even attempt to stop. The worst part and the irony is there was a highway patrol coming around the corner just as it ran the stop sign but luckily he completely ignored me and the violation. I was sure he was going to pull me over and I would have to explain the car was driving and it was the first time its ever done that for this location.

What is going on with 12.3.6 and the spring update that things are not consistent anymore??

I hope 12.4.x fixes things because these recent changes seem to be a regression and very unpredictable for me.
 
What is going on with 12.3.6 and the spring update that things are not consistent anymore??

I hope 12.4.x fixes things because these recent changes seem to be a regression and very unpredictable for me.
It's been inconsistent for me too. For a period shortly after the update it was performing better than pre-update. But the last week I find myself intervening and disengaging more often. Maybe they are doing frequent stealth updates as some others have suggested.
 
It's been inconsistent for me too. For a period shortly after the update it was performing better than pre-update. But the last week I find myself intervening and disengaging more often. Maybe they are doing frequent stealth updates as some others have suggested.
I've also seen variance/regression. 12.3.6 had gotten pretty predictable and consistent. With the latest upgrade, also with 12.3.6, it seems some of the "polish" got knocked off. I'm guessing it is a combination of [bad] map updates and cached state being lost.
 
My Model Y got 2024.14.9 not long ago and today was the first real long drive with it.
I have to say that somehow this is a better 12.3.6 than it was with 2024.3.15
None of my previous drives have been this good.
Today was a 200 mile none stop run from Austin to Sweetwater with a charging stop at Clyde.
In 200 miles there were only two safety interventions, plus 8-10 speed related ones.
The speed ones are where it should be slowing down for a reducing speed limit but it just keeps rolling along at 70 as it hits a 55.
The two safety one were coming off the highway where there is a two way frontage, the car picked the left lane each time.
Other than that, it was impressively good. Very confident and sure through typical small towns etc.
The nav range prediction was also exceedingly accurate.
 
It’s weird that we have so many stop signs and they are so overused that we are contemplating things like this.

Agreed. There's a lot of ways we could do it better, but an easy one from an infrastructure perspective would be replace a substantial number of stop signs with yields

That would require drivers to exercise a reasonable degree of care and due diligence, which I doubt most drivers would do...

But if everyone were skilled and not reckless it can work great. It's effectively legalizing how people already drive: roll through stops at 3-10 mph, depending on their perceived sense of safety at the intersection.

I suspect part of the reason the US is stuck in this rather silly status quo is that since everyone just ignores the literal requirement to stop there's not much pressure to actually change the infrastructure. Thus, it doesn't happen and we all just learn to break the law just a bit but not too much
 
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