FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

[rlsd]

View attachment 1058629

That looks good.

 

[henderrj]

I suspect part of the reason the US is stuck in this rather silly status quo is that since everyone just ignores the literal requirement to stop there's not much pressure to actually change the infrastructure. Thus, it doesn't happen and we all just learn to break the law just a bit but not too much

Trying to compare this stop sign issue with the speed limit issue. Tesla allows the vehicle to go over. (Way over sometimes!). I know that there was a speeding ticket case that went clear to the supreme Court and they made some ruling of 10% or something like that. I take it there's never been a ruling like that for stop signs? Not sure how one would find that information out.

 

[AndrewZ]

Feels like there is an alternate reality or something going on here, I come to a full stop 100% of the time at stop signs etc and it has never been in issue in my decades of driving. People don’t honk or anything, and everyone around me also seems to be doing full stops.

Predictability is key to traffic safety, I come to a full stop even when nobody else is around lol

 

[sleepydoc]

Trying to compare this stop sign issue with the speed limit issue. Tesla allows the vehicle to go over. (Way over sometimes!). I know that there was a speeding ticket case that went clear to the supreme Court and they made some ruling of 10% or something like that. I take it there's never been a ruling like that for stop signs? Not sure how one would find that information out.

There’s a bit of nuance and a fair amount of inconsistency. One difference in the speeding issue is there is an accepted amount of inaccuracy in spedometers as well as how accurately analog spedometers can be read. There is also a range of measurement error in radar equipment. Then there’s the finite ability of most humans to maintain an exact speed. Add all of those factors and you can have someone who is making a conscientious effort to obey the limit be clocked at 10% over. Then there’s the safety question - if you’re on a highway marked 55 MPH and everyone is traveling 65, is it safer to travel 55 or 65? Or something in between? You can make a very solid argument that someone traveling significantly below the prevailing speed is compromising safety.

In comparison, stop signs are a bit more black and white (or red and white.) While one can argue that slowing to 2 MPH instead of stopping when no one else is around doesn’t compromise safety, the law clearly states that one must come to a complete stop. It may annoy the person behind you, but if they rear end you it’s their fault.

The other nuance is that with speed limits the driver is actively setting the speed, either directly, as with cruise control, or less directly via the speed offset setting in FSD. Granted, the software is allowing it but it is till the explicit action of the driver. That becomes a bit muddy with the auto speed setting in 12.3.6. I quit using it long ago so I can’t remember exactly, but as I recall, FSD simply picks the speed it thinks is appropriate and the driver has no control. I suspect if this were reported to the NHTSA they wouldn’t be happy with it.

 

[sleepydoc]

Feels like there is an alternate reality or something going on here, I come to a full stop 100% of the time at stop signs etc and it has never been in issue in my decades of driving. People don’t honk or anything, and everyone around me also seems to be doing full stops.

Predictability is key to traffic safety, I come to a full stop even when nobody else is around lol

You must not live in Texas!

 

[gsmith123]

Feels like there is an alternate reality or something going on here, I come to a full stop 100% of the time at stop signs etc

Driving habits may vary geographically. People learn from those around them, adapt the local enforcement (or lack thereof), etc.

In Colorado (Denver area) it’s exceedingly rare for people to fully stop, when there’s no cross traffic or other reason too. I’ve observed people very closely, lol. Same with right on red.

 

[zoomer0056]

Driving habits may vary geographically. People learn from those around them, adapt the local enforcement (or lack thereof), etc.

In Colorado (Denver area) it’s exceedingly rare for people to fully stop, when there’s no cross traffic or other reason too. I’ve observed people very closely, lol. Same with right on red.

Yup, here in Camarillo I do the CA rolling stop. Not because of impatience of myself or others or because its the custom. But instead, to get that tiny tiny bit of energy savings. After the rolling stop the gradual roll on of the accelerator is also to limit energy use.

Edit:
19,000 miles on 2022 MSLR with lifetime 227 Wh/mile. Because of thread subject I gotta make a relevant statement. FSD(S) is definitely not my style with stoping or jack rabbit take offs ... unnecessary.

 

[EVNow]

It may annoy the person behind you, but if they rear end you it’s their fault.

That compromises safety & security.

 

[rlsd]

Requirement to use FSD v12.4.x:

 

[frankvb]

You must not live in Texas!

I got honked at when doing a right turn from a 50mph road, no space to move over as there wasn't a hard shoulder, and I indicated way in advance
And there was another lane without any traffic to move into...

 

[LSDTester#1]

I got honked at when doing a right turn from a 50mph road, no space to move over as there wasn't a hard shoulder, and I indicated way in advance
And there was another lane without any traffic to move into...

I want to say….and….

 

[sleepydoc]

That compromises safety & security.

The person behind you has no way of knowing what’s right in front of your car - you could well be stopping for an armadillo. The only thign that compromises safety is them not paying attention.

 

[rlsd]

The person behind you has no way of knowing what’s right in front of your car - you could well be stopping for an armadillo. The only thign that compromises safety is them not paying attention.

There were lots of times the drivers in front of me saved me from paying traffic tickets. When I saw them not going fast enough I changed lanes to speed up. Right at the moments I sped up I saw the police aiming the radar speed check device at the other cars or talking to another driver that was stopped.

 

[tivoboy]

I can't believe Musk actually thinks progress on FSD is exponential instead of asymptotic, so it becomes more and more difficult to improve FSD as it gets better. May be he thinks it will be a S curve with FSD just now entering the straight-line area after slow increase.

It’s NOT exponential, but that’s a big word for 99% of the population and it really SOUNDS compelling… if one doesn’t recognize this is a Musk pattern of communication, they haven’t been watching for years. It’s pretty obvious when he throws out acronyms, or unusual combinations or words, or big sounding words - it’s not intelligent, inciteful or, more specific or more accurate, it’s meant to convey in some simple way to surrounding parties - I know more about what Im talking about and for that matter anything, than YOU do - and that puts 99% of the population on the defensive to not ask any qualifying or quantifying questions, so it just lies there. It’s a tactic, and nothing more..

Many devout followers will say, he’s just operating at a “higher level than everyone else” or “that’s just a way a highly intelligent person speaks” or “it’s more precise and accurate the acronyms and words he choooses to use”

As a trip-9, i call bunk. And for the intelligence level above, of which he is NOT, they don’t speak this way at all, it’s worse.. frankly they for the most part don’t really speak at all as it’s a waste of time

 

[dreadrocksean]

Here’s my take. It is objectively less safe to be dinged out of FSD. FSD vs Stopping is Condom vs Abstinence. We all know who won that battle.

The technology to save my sleepy life exists but instead it’s trying to teach me a lesson. Like a bystander watching you get murdered without lifting a finger. In fact it’s worse. It removed the finger.

 

[LSDTester#1]

It’s NOT exponential, but that’s a big word for 99% of the population and it really SOUNDS compelling… if one doesn’t recognize this is a Musk pattern of communication, they haven’t been watching for years. It’s pretty obvious when he throws out acronyms, or unusual combinations or words, or big sounding words - it’s not intelligent, inciteful or, more specific or more accurate, it’s meant to convey in some simple way to surrounding parties - I know more about what Im talking about and for that matter anything, than YOU do - and that puts 99% of the population on the defensive to not ask any qualifying or quantifying questions, so it just lies there. It’s a tactic, and nothing more..

Many devout followers will say, he’s just operating at a “higher level than everyone else” or “that’s just a way a highly intelligent person speaks” or “it’s more precise and accurate the acronyms and words he choooses to use”

As a trip-9, i call bunk. And for the intelligence level above, of which he is NOT, they don’t speak this way at all, it’s worse.. frankly they for the most part don’t really speak at all as it’s a waste of time

Typical elitist Mensa dribble

 

[swedge]

I can't believe Musk actually thinks progress on FSD is exponential instead of asymptotic, so it becomes more and more difficult to improve FSD as it gets better. May be he thinks it will be a S curve with FSD just now entering the straight-line area after slow increase.

Sometimes the "progress" seems asymptomatic, i.e. no observable progress. ;-) I am kidding, of course. FSD is far better already.

On some random other hand, progress in each iteration by a fraction is exponential, by definition. So progress of 0.1% in each update would technically be exponential, but would take 99 updates to improve by only 10%.

Then there is the question of what metric is used to measure progress. Crashes? "Safety"? Interventions? Disengagements? Number of snarky posts on TwiXter? Sales quantity? Profit?

Seriously, though, I think Tesla is really focused on safety, as measured by crashes per mile, or the more carefully measured, deaths per mile driven on FSD. Usually these are reported in the inverse, millions of miles per death. To be able to claim with statistical confidence that driving is safer with FSD engaged, Telsa needs to accumulate many millions of miles of driving with FSD engaged. Breaking it down by freeway vs rural road vs city is also important because the mix can bias comparisons with other data sources. In any case, once Teals sees that FSD is measurably safer than non-fad driving, which I suspect it is now, getting lots of miles driven on FSD would be a reasonable goal for Tesla so that they can make a statically solid claim to regulators and potential customers. Hence, I suspect, the push of 12.3.6 to all cars, and free trial periods. The uptake of subscriptions would be of interest to Tesla, of course, but once the safety is reliably proven, then promoting that safety will help sales a lot, I expect. Promoting safety before they have the proof would be, uh, lawsuit bait. Heck, it will be bait even with the proof, sigh.

 

[JHCCAZ]

Typical elitist Mensa dribble drivel

FTFY.
You can accuse me of being elitist too, but here I'm really just the janitor

 

[tivoboy]

Typical elitist Mensa dribble

Call me when ur another standard deviation to the right.

 

[LSDTester#1]

FTFY.
You can accuse me of being elitist too, but here I'm really just the janitor

Nono. I truly meant dribble