powertoold
Active Member
Omar should shut up a little bit and let aidrvr talk more instead of interrupting him
Perhaps Omar was just overly excited or anxious
Perhaps Omar was just overly excited or anxious
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FSD v12.x (end to end AI)
- Thread starter Buckminster
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- #fixphantombraking autopilot chill is not chill elon is an ass fix fsd extreme late deceleration fsd does not commit to go fsd does not maintain proper speed fsd hard and late braking fsd jerky driving fsd late deceleration fsd stops too early too quickly fsd stops too far behind line fsd tailgating in city streets
Why so negative? Just great to see Omar invite AI Driver for a ride which helped to confirm the improvement appears to be real.
Interesting how these "bad drives" with multiple safety disengagements only happens when he's riding with another influencer.
Or rather they HAVE to posted because its a ride with another influencer.
jebinc
Well-Known Member
To be frank, I'm surprised do many people still watch Whole Mars' FSD videos, knowing what he is and how biased he is.... It's like choosing to line up and wait for the next infomercial....
zoomer0056
Active Member
To be honest (ha, I really just wanted to know how it feels to use the TBH phrase), listening to all sides can provide a better picture. I don't have or even want FSD, so I live vicariously through fanboys and notboys and all degrees between on TMC and YT.
All the releases have gone cold for days now. Usually indicative of a new FW that’s going to pop any moment.
Please! Time to put whore mores back in mothballs and bring on some real world v12 testers.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
I interpret that to mean that V12 is slow and cautious and hesitant at times.
That would be great such as the 12.1.2 example of sharing one center lane for two-way traffic where the advisory bike lane road markings intend to keep everyone safe, so having basic AP not strictly follow lines driving straight into another vehicle would be much safer. But how would Tesla differentiate basic AP and FSD especially with end-to-end?
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
My guess is that maybe Tesla could tweak parameters so that the end-to-end only does lane keeping, lane changes and keeping distance from lead car and does not do all the other stuff that FSD beta can do. I wonder if there would be a way to segment the end-to-end where Tesla just keeps the parts of the NN that only do lane keeping, lane changes and keeping distance from lead car. Or maybe Tesla could do separate end-to-end training just to redo the basic AP stack.
The other possibility, which might actually be more likely, is that once V12 is no longer beta, that Tesla just cancels AP altogether and only sells FSD. I feel like that would make sense because once FSD is good enough, why would Tesla even bother with just basic AP anymore.? In fact, selling basic AP might be less safe compared to using V12. Moreover, I could even imagine a scenario in a few years where Tesla just makes FSD V12 standard on all cars. After all, if FSD V12 becomes safer than a human, why not make it standard on all cars? Alternatively, Tesla might keep 2 stacks. The old basic AP stack just as way to give consumers a driver assist system who cannot afford to buy FSD. But then all of FSD (city, highway, smart summon, auto park) would be the V12 stack.
Sounds like an improvement from V11 then
I always thought V11 was like a 15yr old learner on day two or three, still unable to judge distances, braking too hard and late etc.
V10 was like the same learner on their first trip out in a strange car.
Maybe one day we will see it pass it's driving test
Agree BUT he is the "only game in town".
One of my peeves is 4-Way Stops. V12 is just as horrible as V11. It happens at the very first intersection. V12 sits at the Stop Sign and allows 4 cars to go ahead of it. It is so inept at taking the initiative at 4-Ways and just sits there allowing everyone to take advantage of it. I never (unless there is no other traffic) get through a 4-Way without accelerator intervention.
Yeah this has helped cut-in predictions even for NoA 5 years ago, so it'll be interesting if these also help train end-to-end. Presumably those old clips were single camera so probably not as useful for 12.x training, and if Tesla wants to do similar fleet data collection, something like 11.x perception outputs will need to keep running in the background even while 12.x controls the vehicle. Otherwise if it was only 12.x, the only explicit outputs would seem to be more limited in data collection expressiveness, e.g., "video snapshot when control suddenly slams on brakes," and even then, the value then for training end-to-end would be more of "this is a bad example" rather than the correct driving behavior.
Whereas with the combination of 11.x perception, 12.x control, and human driving, shadow mode could then have triggers that send back video of situations where there ended up being a cut-in that end-to-end accelerated while human decelerated, and this video then can directly train 12.x to behave more like the human example.
FSD follows a route. Autopilot follows a lane. Internally, Autopilot can work up a route that results from following the current lane. It would obviously be much safer, and Autopilot would inherit the ability to manage stop signs, traffic lights, pedestrians and so on. Those are considered features, but they're really safety considerations. If Autopilot doesn't handle those things, then it shouldn't be available where they can be encountered.
jebinc
Well-Known Member
Some things never change… even after three years... But, it’s going to be, “mind-blowing” I’m told….
jebinc
Well-Known Member
And why? Because Elon prefers that WMC has an early release - so Elon can have a trusted shill push his false narrative. Seems like investors are starting to figure that out (finally).Agree BUT he is the "only game in town".
One of my peeves is 4-Way Stops. V12 is just as horrible as V11. It happens at the very first intersection. V12 sits at the Stop Sign and allows 4 cars to go ahead of it. It is so inept at taking the initiative at 4-Ways and just sits there allowing everyone to take advantage of it. I never (unless there is no other traffic) get through a 4-Way without accelerator intervention.
I couldn't get through the entire video but that sounds like a more realistic summary. I hope I'm wrong but I suspect that characteristic indecisive 4 way stop interrupted with firm throttle accel will be a recipe for disaster.
clydeiii
Member
For the naysayers in this thread, I suggest watching Omar’s video with AI Driver. I stopped paying attention to Omar’s videos awhile back as he seemed overly optimistic (to put it kindly). AI Driver is much more balanced and has historically called out FSD when it fails. There are takeovers, hesitations, and accelerator pushes in this ride, however AI Driver seems to be genuinely impressed and his description of a 15 year old limo driver seems pretty spot on. If you want to hear his opinion of v11 vs v12, skip to 30:15 in the video.
Maybe v12 is “The One”.
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