FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

[sleepydoc]

Perhaps they have PTSD from when the national limit was changed to 55 mph then back (in the 70s).

maybe they should just change all the signs to say "Follow Speed Limit" then they never have to change anything. If you don't know what the speed limit is, too bad. It's your responsibility as a driver to know it.

 

[Twiglett]

I forgot to mention, 12.3.6 still doesn't take any notice of any speed limit sign over 60mph if it's on anything other than a divided road.
Which is really annoying as that is most roads out of town here in Texas, we have 65,70,75 on two lane roads out in the country and FSDS doesn't spot them.
It spilled coffee on my shirt when I made the mistake of taking a sip just at the time it decided to floor it to close the gap it left in traffic - extreme rubber banding seems to have gotten worse in 12.3.6 in chill mode. Engaging normal/average gets better gaps but it also makes way more terrible lane choices.
So close to being really rather good.
Very interested to see what 12.4 will bring, but that does mean how loose my interpretation of "two weeks" will be. The A.S.S definition means sometime next year, or so.

 

[joelkfla]

We've had this exact same discussion in this thread before. It is not always illegal to cross a double yellow. Passing a bicycle is a perfectly legal reason to do so.

In fact, in my state, the law is you must give at least 3 feet of space to a cyclist while passing. And there's an explicit carve-out in the double-yellow law to allow you to cross it to give cyclists safe space.

It seems that laws have changed since I took Driver's Ed in 1969 ... and nobody told me!

 

[Dewg]

I finally experienced the "waffling" on a left turn. It couldn't make up its mind which lane to get in. Really simple to correct, I just disengaged, picked the lane and reengaged about 2 seconds later.

 

[OldManCan]

I finally experienced the "waffling" on a left turn. It couldn't make up its mind which lane to get in. Really simple to correct, I just disengaged, picked the lane and reengaged about 2 seconds later.

Interesting how this happens to me all the time on one particular intersection and then doesn't happen on some others. There must be something in the surroundings to cause this anomaly.

 

[Dewg]

Interesting how this happens to me all the time on one particular intersection and then doesn't happen on some others. There must be something in the surroundings to cause this anomaly.

I think it's a weight issue with the model. I think the default is to go into the left most turn lane, but the navigation had it turning right in 500 feet after the turn, so the two were fighting.

 

[hey8you]

After using 12.3.6 for a bit I feel there is some improvements over 12.3.4, maybe? I didn't really get to use 12.3.5 other than auto park. I tried Autopark in the garage using the same spots Iv been testing in and there is no change since .5. I did try new spot and it would have hit another car if I hadn't stopped it. While trying to park into a spot on the left side. It pulled past a car parked on the right side then turned right a bit. It got real close going forward. When backing up with the wheel turned left, it looked like my front bumper/fender would have hit the back of the parked car so I had to stop it.

I did notice a change on .6. Its handling my gate differently now. On arrival, older versions would just stop partly blocking the oncoming lane while the gate is still opening. Now there is just a lot of hesitation until its gets halfway past the driveway. By the time the gate is open enough, it commits to the left turn. On exiting, it no longer tries to turn right and slows for the opening gate. There is a bit of indecision while approaching the gate but it does go through.

Older versions would take the middle lane when turning left but .6 now took the turn in lane(or whatever its called). Green line is what v12.3.4 and older always took. Red line is what 12.3.6 takes. There is a stoplight there now but about 8 years ago it was just a stop sign coming off of Sierra. This intersection also has a no right on red and all versions of V12 will always try to turn on red.

 

[cyborgLIS]

There's plenty of good old-fashioned engineering still to be done: to figure out how to embed the network into Dojo and train it there at scale, how to iterate the architecture of the network to see which way works best, and of course to find ways to translate what the network "sees" into the on-screen visualizations. (I'm not sure whether this data is somehow extracted from the primary E2E network, or is separately computed and visualized by an independent network.)

I too was wondering how the visualizations are generated now without the Occupancy Network. Previously the visualization was capturing the byproduct of FSD's perception component. Since there is no longer a discreet perception component, it seems the computer would need to devote additional resources to produce the onscreen visualization. This might also lead to a greater disconnect between the visualization and what the car actually "sees".

I do appreciate that they kept the FSD visualizations though. It's possibly my favorite part of FSD and I wish it would replace the inferior AP visualization. I also wish they'd give you greater control over the perspective. You should be able to lock in the camera angle, and be able to use on command the super zoomed out bird's eye view (the one that automatically activates at intersections). At the least, the default camera angle should be further zoomed out to show more of your rear surroundings.

Fully agree with this.
The big problem I have with it is that the very first thing you have to do is be looking out to see what is about to come and hit us - then once you have decided everything is safe you can check the screen just in time to see the FSD message disappearing off the screen (the message more likely to be about it mistaking a dark patch on the road as another vehicle).

The text for the warning messages needs to be larger and/or visually coded (by color and/or icon). It doesn't make any sense to call the driver's attention to scrutinize some tiny text on a screen which basically reduces to "Hey! Pay attention to the road!" At least display the message in the notification tab for later viewing.

After using 12.3.6 for a bit I feel there is some improvements over 12.3.4, maybe? I didn't really get to use 12.3.5 other than auto park. I tried Autopark in the garage using the same spots Iv been testing in and there is no change since .5. I did try new spot and it would have hit another car if I hadn't stopped it. While trying to park into a spot on the left side. It pulled past a car parked on the right side then turned right a bit. It got real close going forward. When backing up with the wheel turned left, it looked like my front bumper/fender would have hit the back of the parked car so I had to stop it.

I agree with the disengagement, but there's a chance it might have turned the wheel to curve around the car. I had a similar situation where it was on course to swing the front of the car into a lamp post, but it spun the wheel the other way at the last moment and curved around it.

 

[swedge]

For cars, any dimwit that can manage to turn the key can get in and risk every other car around.

Not exactly true. Dimwits and the rest of us must all pass a written test and a practical test, just like us pilots. And the cars need licenses and must meet numerous regulations as well. Heck, even the blinkers must have adequate fluid supplies. ;-)

As a pilot progresses from private to instrument to comercial to airline transport ratings, the tests get harder. But these, as well as the hardware regulations are based on actual experience. Orville and Wilbur didn't pass any tests or meet any regulatory requirements - those were developed based on actual experience, not speculative and political considerations. (Mostly. AirMail did involve some political considerations, as I understand it.)

It appears that NHTSA is flying blind regarding actual safety. (IFR pilot pun intended.)

 

[Therealm80]

Can anyone explain this?

 

[Wnuk]

Can anyone explain this?

When I pull into my garage I have the car automatically fold the mirrors for extra room. When I pull the car out of the garage to wash it I need to use that button to unfold them

 

[drtimhill]

Can anyone explain this?

Mice got into the computer compartment and stole some of the letters to make a nest for their young.

 

[Todd Burch]

Can anyone explain this?

Looks like the font used for the sidebar menu somehow got corrupted.

Try a reboot. If that fails, contact service via the Tesla app and request that they repush the software to you car.

 

[Mike_TV]

I really hate the sudden, out-of-the-blue, red hands on wheel alert. They are just so jarring. You can be cruising along just fine and then suddenly the car is blaring at you to grab the wheel immediately. On my drive to work this morning I got 2 of them back to back that scared the crap out of me. The first one, I think was due to a dip in the road where construction removed a bit of the asphalt. FSD was fine and then suddenly freaked out when the car drove over the dip. And then a moment later, I got a second alert when I think the wheel spinned a bit on some wet gravel.

Since this is on your commute to work, check and see if these are repeatable and happen at the same location. This happened to me in, I think the 10.x version of FSD, with a street in my neighborhood. It was completely repeatable and got into the habit of reporting it each time. Eventually went away with an update.

 

[diplomat33]

Since this is on your commute to work, check and see if these are repeatable and happen at the same location. This happened to me in, I think the 10.x version of FSD, with a street in my neighborhood. It was completely repeatable and got into the habit of reporting it each time. Eventually went away with an update.

This is actually the first time it has happened to me, which is why it was particularly jarring and scary. If it did happen all the time, I would be ready for it. The fact that it was the first time that it happened, took me by surprise. I think the only difference is that it had rained so the roads were a little wet which caused the wheels to slip a bit. I think when the car detects that it is losing traction, it triggers the red hands on wheel alert to force the driver to pay attention and take over.

 

[enemji]

I think when the car detects that it is losing traction, it triggers the red hands on wheel alert to force the driver to pay attention and take over.

This is a great scenario. What would an AV do in such a situation?

 

[diplomat33]

This is a great scenario. What would an AV do in such a situation?

Well, for one, L4 cars like Waymo don't "freak out" with warnings to the driver to take over since they need to operate without a human driver. They are trained to know how to handle the situation on their own, maybe by slowing down to regain traction. It is probably one reason why Waymo spent a lot of time validating safety in rain. It was not just about the cameras being able to see in the rain but also cases like wet roads, puddles that cause reflections etc... They specifically mention cases like wet roads in their validation. So I think Waymo likely was validating for cases like losing traction on a wet road, to make sure their cars could handle the case safely.

 

[lzolman]

Can anyone explain this?

Yes, it translates to "Time for the two-finger salute"

 

[Buckminster]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1788226284104851835

 

[Joboo7777]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1788226284104851835

Probably the more important update to FSD to date. Even bigger than initial release of V12. It has the potential to prove if Tesla has “Solved” FSD with the new framework built on AI.

In theory this should be a multi-step forward improvement. It won’t be perfect, and I’m not trying to hype this, but it does have the potential to validate Tesla’s strategy.