Huh. Yeah, I hadn't thought of that. And that would be reasonable to put in a little outlet splitter if you need to with the garage door opener still plugged in, because you're not going to be opening your garage door in the middle of the night when your car is charging.
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Home charging
- Thread starter D.E.
- Start date
Reviving an older thread instead of starting a new one...home charging has been a large topic of discussion on the various Tesla Facebook pages lately. Likely the reason is that many people are watching costs. This will take a few paragraphs to explain because it isn't as cut and dried as "what's another $1500" for those of us with houses that were built long distances from our junction boxes and garages. Those that have power close, consider yourselves fortunate.
1. Lots of people using a "local" supercharger to avoid charging at home. When I'm on a road trip I'd prefer not to wait in line at a supercharger, especially outside of California. The only chargers I hear that have lines are in CA, and of those only a few hot spots like San Diego and Kettleman City. East of the Mississippi the most I've seen at an 8 stall Tesla Supercharger were four Teslas plugged in (not counting ICE blockages).
2. I considered having a HPWC installed in my garage, but it doesn't make economical sense for me yet. I have about 100 feet from my main breaker to my garage, so wire to put in a NEMA 14-50 or Telsa HPWC was going to be about $1500. Large gauge wire was a large part of the cost. My panel is out of slots with already the maximum amount of doubled up breakers. A second panel will need to be installed for additional breakers and a junction box in the garage.
3. Using the UMC on a 120V, 15A has been giving me the power I need to commute 12 miles round trip to work. I'd ride my bike, but rain in PA is unpredictable and I'm not a fan of riding in the rain. I enjoy any excuse to drive my Telsa Model S. I set my max charge limit to 70% and let it work up from 40 to 50% and build toward 70% if I have some light driving days.
4. Problem? I'm bothered by the longer amount of time the onboard charger is working. Has it been proven that there are parts that have a lifespan I'm using up by having my car charge 12 hours every day? I know there are higher transmission losses at lower amperage and the charts here on TMC show 25-30A the most efficient at 95%. If I end up needing to replace part of the battery cooling system, AC/DC converter, or HV charger it will likely cost much more than $1500 to install a quite convenient home charging solution.
5. For road trips I take (about one a month), the charge state of my car is plenty to get started. At about 50% charge, I can comfortably travel 100 miles and I'm fortunate that there are Tesla Superchargers in each direction from Pittsburgh (N, S, E and W) I can stop at when embarking on a long trip. I've often go on 500 to 1000 mile road trips without giving it a second thought.
6. Convenience. I will likely eventually install a HPWC in my garage this Fall for the convenience. I can set my home charge rate to 25A for maximum efficiency for daily charging. I can set my max charge level to 60% as recommended by several in the know here on TMC, TED talks etc. Then I can set my delayed charge timer to complete my car's charge and hour or two prior to my daily departure time to account for variances and reduce time spent charging the battery to the most efficient level where line loss is the least. I can bump up the maximum charge state to 90% any evening and be ready to depart on a winter road trip with the maximum flexibility with an HPWC.
6a. The beauty of having a HPWC in the garage is that it costs about the same, in my case, to install as a NEMA 14-50. Those with shorter wire runs and panels with plenty of room for a 60A circuit. Winter in PA requires a little more juice to operate my Model S as it gets down below freezing. Even though my garage is warmer than outside, my car will sit outside during the work day and even with preheating before I leave there will be some passive drain on the charge state.
6b. If we end up with a second Tesla in our two car garage as we go all electric in 2019 it will be simple to add a second HPWC for simultaneous charging of both cars with both HPWC's talking to each other for circuit load management.
7. Preservation of my UMC. With an HPWC my garage my UMC will stay tucked away in the frunk and be ready for destination charging on the rare occasion that commercial destination Tesla plugs are not available and I need to charge at an RV park or other plug.
I had some free time so this is longer than I intended...but none the less, my thoughts on a MS 85 owner's evolution as a home charging advocate that will likely pull the trigger on a HPWC in the coming months after all.
Should I give in and just go with Tesla's home charging solution now? I don't want to miss the "forrest for the trees."
1. Lots of people using a "local" supercharger to avoid charging at home. When I'm on a road trip I'd prefer not to wait in line at a supercharger, especially outside of California. The only chargers I hear that have lines are in CA, and of those only a few hot spots like San Diego and Kettleman City. East of the Mississippi the most I've seen at an 8 stall Tesla Supercharger were four Teslas plugged in (not counting ICE blockages).
2. I considered having a HPWC installed in my garage, but it doesn't make economical sense for me yet. I have about 100 feet from my main breaker to my garage, so wire to put in a NEMA 14-50 or Telsa HPWC was going to be about $1500. Large gauge wire was a large part of the cost. My panel is out of slots with already the maximum amount of doubled up breakers. A second panel will need to be installed for additional breakers and a junction box in the garage.
3. Using the UMC on a 120V, 15A has been giving me the power I need to commute 12 miles round trip to work. I'd ride my bike, but rain in PA is unpredictable and I'm not a fan of riding in the rain. I enjoy any excuse to drive my Telsa Model S. I set my max charge limit to 70% and let it work up from 40 to 50% and build toward 70% if I have some light driving days.
4. Problem? I'm bothered by the longer amount of time the onboard charger is working. Has it been proven that there are parts that have a lifespan I'm using up by having my car charge 12 hours every day? I know there are higher transmission losses at lower amperage and the charts here on TMC show 25-30A the most efficient at 95%. If I end up needing to replace part of the battery cooling system, AC/DC converter, or HV charger it will likely cost much more than $1500 to install a quite convenient home charging solution.
5. For road trips I take (about one a month), the charge state of my car is plenty to get started. At about 50% charge, I can comfortably travel 100 miles and I'm fortunate that there are Tesla Superchargers in each direction from Pittsburgh (N, S, E and W) I can stop at when embarking on a long trip. I've often go on 500 to 1000 mile road trips without giving it a second thought.
6. Convenience. I will likely eventually install a HPWC in my garage this Fall for the convenience. I can set my home charge rate to 25A for maximum efficiency for daily charging. I can set my max charge level to 60% as recommended by several in the know here on TMC, TED talks etc. Then I can set my delayed charge timer to complete my car's charge and hour or two prior to my daily departure time to account for variances and reduce time spent charging the battery to the most efficient level where line loss is the least. I can bump up the maximum charge state to 90% any evening and be ready to depart on a winter road trip with the maximum flexibility with an HPWC.
6a. The beauty of having a HPWC in the garage is that it costs about the same, in my case, to install as a NEMA 14-50. Those with shorter wire runs and panels with plenty of room for a 60A circuit. Winter in PA requires a little more juice to operate my Model S as it gets down below freezing. Even though my garage is warmer than outside, my car will sit outside during the work day and even with preheating before I leave there will be some passive drain on the charge state.
6b. If we end up with a second Tesla in our two car garage as we go all electric in 2019 it will be simple to add a second HPWC for simultaneous charging of both cars with both HPWC's talking to each other for circuit load management.
7. Preservation of my UMC. With an HPWC my garage my UMC will stay tucked away in the frunk and be ready for destination charging on the rare occasion that commercial destination Tesla plugs are not available and I need to charge at an RV park or other plug.
I had some free time so this is longer than I intended...but none the less, my thoughts on a MS 85 owner's evolution as a home charging advocate that will likely pull the trigger on a HPWC in the coming months after all.
Should I give in and just go with Tesla's home charging solution now? I don't want to miss the "forrest for the trees."
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If you plan to install it anyway, then I would say why wait? I have 2 HPWCs in my garage for our 2 Teslas and it makes it very convenient for keeping both cars charged and also makes adding a few miles quickly much easier. We had about a 65 foot run from my panels to the garage and I used a 100A circuit, which meant the biggest wire I have ever seen in a home electrical installation. Ended up costing about $2k for everything for the first install, but still worth it for me.
My dilemma is that I may be moving in the next year, I'm not sure. We're holding off on solar and car charging installation until we know we're going to be somewhere for 10 years or so. Where I live the realtors have warned me (I asked) that solar will decrease the value of my home due the the "ugly" panels on the roof, not increase it. Likewise, I'm told additional wiring and panels in the garage can make a potential buyer uncertain, so it is not recommended to add car charging to our finished garage unless we are sure we will be there long enough to make it worth the cost to us.
gavine
Petrol Head turned EV Enthusiast
Ridiculous that this is the case. Soon though, these same people complaining about solar and garage outlets are going to be coveting them.
Solar panels may be hit or miss with buyers. Much like swimming pools.
I do not see an extra outlet in the garage as a problem for a buyer. Car charging, welder, air compressor, dryer, etc. Of course, it has to look reasonable. Sure, you may not "make money" off of it when selling the house so one should consider the ROI. But there is no way a reasonable person would see a plug as a negative.
So you wrote a whole page about installing charging and leave out "I may be moving soon", which ends up being your overwhelming criteria????? You even said you will likely plan to install a HPWC in your garage this Fall and potentially a second in 2019????
rhumbliner
Member
Labor would be the largest part of the cost, not materials. In your case, the cost of "large gauge wire" would be less than $200.
1/0 XHHW-2 Aluminum Building Wire
...especially with our all electric house. I was all excited after we bought our house about installing solar. After the lengthy research process it was clear there is no free lunch with solar. A ten year pay back is a sizable risk for us and taking the solar system with us is not economically viable either.
Yes, if we end up deciding to stay in the house for a couple more years. All of my points are individual discussions I suppose, independent of my current situation.
This is seriously inexpensive wire. I suppose by over sizing it (1/0) and connecting to a junction box just inside the garage, then using more flexible 6 gauge wire to each HPWC there wouldn't be much of an issue. Keeping it neat will be the challenge with a finished garage.
If I was staying in the house and not worried about potentially selling I'd paint all the conduit and junction box red to embrace the industrial car charging look.
Likely painting all the conduit and junction box the same color as the walls and ceiling would be the best compromise in garage styling to help it all blend in.
This could be the answer. A junction box with two outlets cleverly disguised as 50A RV receptacles.
These kinds of threads dumbfound me. We are talking about $500-$1500 which is a lot of money sure - but it is a bit out of wack given how much we all paid for our cars. If the goal is to optimize costs I don’t get why buying a model S makes sense at all. It’s a wonderful vehicle but it ain’t cheap any way you look at it.
To help you understand better, it isn't about the cost alone. I have a nicely finished garage. Conduit running all across the ceilings, a junction box added to the wall, etc could be an unsightly eyesore.
Also, I bought a used Model S for less than half price that looks and drives like new from a private party. I'm not one to throw money away, let alone make my garage look undesirable for selling my house should I need to move in the next year.
The size wire we're talking about running does not go well through existing wall pathways to be hidden like I'd prefer, so instead of a full garage remodel requiring redoing all the sheetrock, texture and paint, I'm throwing out ideas on how to keep things simple and unobtrusive. I'd love to hear your ideas, even if they cost a little more up front. A clean install is more important than a cheap one.
Anyway, this is a discussion forum...for discussing stuff...so I'm going to go search this site for finished garage installs and see what I find. Surely the wheel has been already invented.
Oh yeah, I love these comments thinking that people got a lot of money by constantly throwing it away uselessly.
eprosenx
Active Member
Can you post pictures of your main panel (the breakers with amps visible, the panel "schedule" of what things are, and the sticker of the panel specs on the door so we know what kind it is and what ratings)? Then maybe a picture of the general area around the panel and the path to the garage? Often times there are ways to further consolidate your panel breakers onto tandems that are not always obvious.
I am wondering if we can find you a less expensive solution that might let you get something slightly better but not cost a ton if you are thinking of selling / moving. I have a HPWC AND a 14-50 that I installed myself and I am so glad I have it just for the unexpected. Often on Friday's I come home from work and want a quick turnaround to go on a weekend trip. Even a relatively small (20a or 30a) 240v circuit would be a massive step up for you.
I too wonder if having the charging circuitry and pumps running constantly would decrease their lifespan. I don't think a 5-15 is a great home charging solution even if you drive limited miles. I kind of feel that 20a 240v is the minimum most folks would want to be at.
I like keeping my UMC in the car at all times so buying the HPWC just made sense over a second UMC.
As others have mentioned, a common solution is to get aluminum SE (SER) cable and run that from your panel to a subpanel in the garage, and then like surface mount EMT to HPWC's or 14-50's. Aluminum is a lot cheaper, and if you don't have to run conduit on the long run that also saves a lot of labor. You would want copper wire from the breaker to the HPWC though (it is required).
I charge at my home with a 14-50 NEMA and the plug was stuck today. I was able to remove the plug after a bit of struggle, but it seems to be burnt out. I am attaching the pictures
It doesn't look safe to re-use. But does this need a full replacement or there any workarounds. Do I need to get a different UMC kit?
It doesn't look safe to re-use. But does this need a full replacement or there any workarounds. Do I need to get a different UMC kit?
Attachments
![IMG_20180818_091916979[1].jpg](/tmc/data/attachments/312/312518-aa2a23f3786517f484476fe375d59802.jpg)
![IMG_20180818_092008375[1].jpg](/tmc/data/attachments/312/312519-de50a2badda801ad4e6a77f5dccfcfb0.jpg)
eprosenx
Active Member
That is really bad. The receptacle needs swapped without question. I would go buy a new one (Tesla recommends a couple different manufacturers units - they are kind of speedy, but since you had a proven issue here it is probably worth the $70).
I would want to know why his happened as well. Is a wire loose on the back side of that receptacle? When swapping the receptacle I would make sure the wire going into it is not damaged.
Then I would contact Tesla and see if they will replace that adapter for you. I am not sure what caused the damage, but I doubt they would want you using a potentially damaged unit. Way cheaper for them to give you a new one then deal with a lawsuit when your house burns down.
Though I do wonder if they still make the UMC Gen 1 adapters? I have not checked the web site since I have a gen 2.
I can imagine two scenarios:
1. You tried to pull out plug mistakenly while car was still charging and arc burned the contacts.
2. Contact was bad which lead to overheating contact and burn. In this case you might smell burned insulation some time before you unplugged.
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
Weird... I would have expected the car to curtail charging before that would have happened. Did you get any error messages? The 14-50 is also supposed to have a thermal fuse that should have prevented that; It does look like it was a loose wire inside the 14-50. How long ago was that wired?
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