Hostility to the transition to EVs?

[BlindPass]

I have a very small sample size, personal bias, etc., but here in Texas I'm sensing a pro-Tesla vibe as of late. The fact that Tesla is building a plant in Texas, and not California (boo!) is the reason.

Recent geo-political things have helped. But I’m on a forum for gas and electric, with many “true” Texans, as they see themselves, and they now treat Austin as though it’s California.

Tesla’s are generally good cars, so the hate should slowly erode as more of these people actually become familiar with EVs and Tesla.
A previous poster asked why care or try to inform? Kind of an odd question on an EV forum. EVs are a passion and conviction. I hate those that are only against Tesla and EVs because of ignorance

 

[Tempil]

Moderator comment - thread originally started in The UK and Ireland sub forum

I know that this is a forum of EV owners so maybe this is a bit of an echo chamber for those of us who like EVs, but I’ve recently become aware of some very strong views from family and social media who sound a bit hostile to the arguments supporting EV ownership.

It’s the usual sort of things: ‘EVs are too expensive to purchase, only rich people can afford them. they cost almost as much to rapid charge as petrol equivalent. Most people don’t have the means to get a Type 2 charger at home, the charging network is poor. Where is all this electricity needed for EVs going to come from? Etc?’

I’m not surprised by these comments. They can be responded to with the facts about EVs.

What has surprised though, is the hostility from some of those making these arguments. I feel like I’m speaking to anti-vaxers or flat-earthers.

its almost as if they feel that we EV owner are elitist do-gooders who have been ‘greenwashed’.

Has anyone else found that some people are seemingly furious with the arguments about the value of switching to EVs?

I completely understand what you mean by Flat Earthers.

The similarity seems to stem from the percieved obviousness/inevitablity of EV takeover to us as investors, and whilst I quite agree that it seems perhaps, to cater to this echo chamber of sorts, there is a very real and objective truth that is the cusp of our transition to EV's has come.

It Is the realisarion of previously neglected benefits that will sway the masses. This is just a matter of time as more EV's become available.

 

[nwdiver]

This is not true. You've bundled a bunch of opinions that you're against and then accused "them" (the anti-you's) of all of them.

??? They bundled themselves.... Isn't one of their mottos 'Where we go one we go all'?

 

[Hayseed_MS]

While there certainly are some haters out there, there is no doubt in my mind that EV’s will someday be the standard. I’m from the boomer generation, live in a generally conservative area, and everywhere I go, kids give me thumbs up, and I regularly get questions in parking lots from adults of every age. Even more telling, the two outdoor gun ranges in my area have destination chargers. Don’t succumb to media or social network narratives or stereotypes. My very conservative brother owns a Hellcat and a Model S, and they both live in harmony in his garage.

Good points.

New to the EV world. Do not see giving up my Wranglers or bacon any time soon. However, I am excited and pushing for the movement to making EV's more predominant. Have an S and X on order to replace two ICE SUV's. EV's are not for everyone at this moment (driving habits, distances, parking, lifestyle, etc.). They are getting that way though.

There are many EV lovers who are so filled with hatred of ICE that they beat people over the head and scream "puppy killer" at them. As right as the EV community can be on some issues, it does a disservice to take that bigoted approach towards ICE owners. Anyone that automatically characterizes this as a political, religious, or social stereotype is just blinded by their own hatred.

And there are equally those that are blinded by their love for ICE/hatred for EV, that they will never open their ears to hear the other side, These are on both sides of the argument.

I calmly (and non-judgmentally) discus Tesla's with those that are interested and counter myths if brought up.

 

[BlindPass]

Good points.

New to the EV world. Do not see giving up my Wranglers or bacon any time soon. However, I am excited and pushing for the movement to making EV's more predominant. Have an S and X on order to replace two ICE SUV's. EV's are not for everyone at this moment (driving habits, distances, parking, lifestyle, etc.). They are getting that way though.

There are many EV lovers who are so filled with hatred of ICE that they beat people over the head and scream "puppy killer" at them. As right as the EV community can be on some issues, it does a disservice to take that bigoted approach towards ICE owners. Anyone that automatically characterizes this as a political, religious, or social stereotype is just blinded by their own hatred.

And there are equally those that are blinded by their love for ICE/hatred for EV, that they will never open their ears to hear the other side, These are on both sides of the argument.

I calmly (and non-judgmentally) discus Tesla's with those that are interested and counter myths if brought up.

What an ignorant post. I wish I could enjoy this bliss.

Get out more past your narrow little network. You’ll find much EV angst is ignorance ultimately sourced from political and social motives. Particularly with Tesla. Most haven’t done the research. Most haven’t driven an EV and tested how to integrate charging into their lives. But many are able to regurgitate talking points from known political and social agendas.

Is that improving? Yes, as myths won’t contain a technology like Tesla and EVs.

On the flipside, a vast majority of EV proponents are very informed of both technologies, and don’t “hate” ICE. Hate and bigoted? Lol. What a childish take. They don’t “hate” ICE anymore than they hated old landlines and first cell phones when enjoying their smart phone.

 

[Hayseed_MS]

Wow. Drama much? I did not paint either side as all. Please reread and see that I was stating that someone that takes this bigoted approach is doing a disservice to either side. Also, read comments from people here and see the hatred for ICE. There is most certainly hatred on both sides.

I did not say that they are not politically or socially motivated but I said "Anyone that automatically characterizes this as a political, religious, or social stereotype is just blinded by their own hatred." This means that because one is a Trump supporter that they hate EV and someone who hates EV is a Biden supporter. There are plenty that span both the aisles politically. Unfortunately ignorance and hatred are not owned by one party and to think otherwise would be ignorant bliss.

I obviously pissed in your oatmeal and am sorry. Nothing to prove or argue about.

 

[Hayseed_MS]

Tesla’s are generally good cars, so the hate should slowly erode as more of these people actually become familiar with EVs and Tesla.
A previous poster asked why care or try to inform? Kind of an odd question on an EV forum. EVs are a passion and conviction. I hate those that are only against Tesla and EVs because of ignorance

While your post response to me was a personal attack, your post I quoted is a good one. EV's are a passion and conviction - as they should be. I agree that it is stupid to be against something out of ignorance (that goes for anything EV or not). But the information must be presented in a informative way and not in an attacking, "your views are childish" sort of way.

 

[uujjj2]

I have a very small sample size, personal bias, etc., but here in Texas I'm sensing a pro-Tesla vibe as of late. The fact that Tesla is building a plant in Texas, and not California (boo!) is the reason.

Tesla is building a plant in Austin, which is not actually part of Texas but rather a colony of California.

 

[mk677]

While your post response to me was a personal attack, your post I quoted is a good one. EV's are a passion and conviction - as they should be.

a passion and a conviction?
maybe for some but for most people EVs are just a mode of transport.

I am not passionate about the car I drive because it is an EV, I am passionate about it because it is fast, drives well and in the case of EVs needs little maintaining and I never need to visit a smelly fuel station.

only the most avid fan bois proselytize to others the virtues of an EV and only the more fragile get upset over someone not embracing the choices that they make.

 

[gavine]

This all reminds me of the early days of Disco music. There were hard-core rock-n-roll fans who were hostile towards Disco. People who liked Disco were afraid to admit it. Can you imagine wearing a Bee Gees concert shirt to school in the 70's instead of AC/DC, Black Sabbath, etc? At some point, it became acceptable and okay to embrace it.

 

[Hayseed_MS]

a passion and a conviction?
maybe for some but for most people EVs are just a mode of transport.

I am not passionate about the car I drive because it is an EV, I am passionate about it because it is fast, drives well and in the case of EVs needs little maintaining and I never need to visit a smelly fuel station.

only the most avid fan bois proselytize to others the virtues of an EV and only the more fragile get upset over someone not embracing the choices that they make.

Let me clarify my point better. It is ok and in many case it should be a conviction or a passion. To many it is a cause - protecting the environment - and it is ok to be passionate about that. But how you present it, in that case, is important.

Your point that it is just a tool is equally valid - it is ok not to have the same passion that others have about the EV movement.

 

[nwdiver]

I really couldn't care less about ICE or EV... If someone invented an ICE that I could fuel affordably using the Solar PV on my roof I'd consider that too. My 'hatred' isn't toward ICE... it's about the consequences of using it given the laws of physics we have to work with....

 

[hgmichna]

If someone invented an ICE that I could fuel affordably using the Solar PV on my roof I'd consider that too.

By the way, it is entirely possible, already invented, but currently too expensive. The process first creates hydrogen, then turns it into a synthetic, liquid fuel by adding CO2 taken from the atmosphere. Such fuel can be used in existing piston engine cars like petrol or Diesel oil without adding CO2 to the atmosphere, because it was first taken from the atmosphere.

We may ultimately have to go that way anyway.

 

[PaulSu]

Then there is this...

 

[gavine]

We may ultimately have to go that way anyway.

Why? Not enough batteries for full transition to EV?

 

[FordMME]

I know that this is a forum of EV owners so maybe this is a bit of an echo chamber for those of us who like EVs, but I’ve recently become aware of some very strong views from family and social media who sound a bit hostile to the arguments supporting EV ownership.

It’s the usual sort of things: ‘EVs are too expensive to purchase, only rich people can afford them. they cost almost as much to rapid charge as petrol equivalent. Most people don’t have the means to get a Type 2 charger at home, the charging network is poor. Where is all this electricity needed for EVs going to come from? Etc?’

There is a lot of truth, currently, to all these arguments. EVs are currently too expensive for mass adoption, even after government subsides, and those subsidies carry their own problems. Not only are the subsidies costly, in many cases they constitute a tax windfall for the wealthy. In many cases DCFC does cost as much as gasoline. The charging network is poor, even for Tesla, relative to gasoline. Home charging is not easy for many people, especially in Europe. Where will all the electricity needed to power a mass transition to EVs come from? Where will the batteries come from? The truth is that we are decades away from EVs constituting a majority of cars on the roads in most countries, even highly developed countries.

I think you would have more enjoyable discussions with your family members, and a more enjoyable time with them period, if you started by acknowledging that maybe you're not right about everything. Maybe they've got a point (they do). And even if you disagree with them politically, that doesn't make them stupid (there is no correlation between politics and intelligence). Comparing people who don't agree with you on EVs, or politics, etc. as "flat earthers" is the height of pretension.

Specifically with respect to EVs, I would not advise taking the "environmental" approach with your family because EVs are not particularly environmentally friendly. In fact, in some ways they are downright filthy. The "green" argument for EVs relies on a set of very rosy assumptions about the future of battery and electrical production, and adoption, that is a looooong way from reality.

The approach your family probably will respond to: EVs are FUN to drive! They're fast! They require less maintenance. You might even save money in the long run if you can charge at home.

 

[SO16]

The approach your family probably will respond to: EVs are FUN to drive! They're fast! They require less maintenance. You might even save money in the long run if you can charge at home.

Good response to that situation.

 

[SO16]

The "green" argument for EVs relies on a set of very rosy assumptions about the future of battery and electrical production, and adoption, that is a looooong way from reality.

But this part is wrong. There is no debate on this if people are willing to actually look at the facts. However I do agree that not bringing up the green argument is the best strategy given the audience.

 

[designrs]

I've also had someone say he'd never give up his gas truck because of the "power"... LOL... I translate that to "noise".

Gearhead here who misses the noise. Other than that, no regrets and very happy with my Tesla Model 3.

I really didn’t buy it because it was green, although I did like the idea of not buying gas. Mostly I brought it because I though it was cool. My Tesla store is right next to an Apple store.

Before this I had a Vette which just guzzled premium gas.
When kids stare at your car that means you’re doing something right.

 

[designrs]

If Tesla had cars at the auto shows for demos like other brands, more people would experience the car and understand it.