So there are no real Tesla haters then? Just "partisan fans" of ICE alternatives. I think it goes a bit beyond that personally. There is a pretty vocal bunch of haters who would love to see Tesla fail.... and I don't just mean those lobbying for the oil/ICE industry or those shorting the stock. There are plenty of guys driving around in ICE Porsches, BMWs, Mercs, Audis, Range Rovers, etc who go out of their way on car forums to rubbish Tesla at every opportunity for no obvious reason other than seeing Tesla as a threat to their status quo and fragile egos. Actually I think that is the very reason!
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Hostility to the transition to EVs?
- Thread starter Llama.
- Start date
While there certainly are some haters out there, there is no doubt in my mind that EV’s will someday be the standard. I’m from the boomer generation, live in a generally conservative area, and everywhere I go, kids give me thumbs up, and I regularly get questions in parking lots from adults of every age. Even more telling, the two outdoor gun ranges in my area have destination chargers. Don’t succumb to media or social network narratives or stereotypes. My very conservative brother owns a Hellcat and a Model S, and they both live in harmony in his garage.
The moderator moved this tfrom the U.K. section to the general forum. Its interesting to hear these comments from other areas.
Lindamon makes a really good point. We need everyone to adopt EVs and shouldn’t try and link it to other ideologies.
What are people finding in other areas of the world? Are you noticing EV reluctance or is it sometimes hostility?
M109Rider
Active Member
In Ontario Canada, I find very few people that aren’t amazed and on board with EV’s.
Even the folks that prefer ICE cars, are still on board with EV’s, they just prefer ICE at the moment.
Im not saying the haters aren’t here, just doesn’t seem to be too many of them.
The biggest problem in Canada is the price of EV’s.
We suffer from a brutal exchange rate, which drives the price much higher relative to the US pricing for the same car. This makes buying an EV financially difficult for many.
That being said, our gas prices are way higher, and our electricity pricing is typically lower. So the cost to run an EV here, is typically way cheaper. If you can afford it up front, in the end, it will be cheaper to own and run here, depending on how many kilometres you drive a year.
There are those people, but I think they're getting tired tired of the active hating. It's exhausting, especially when the other side has more of a "you do you" attitude and just gets on with things. It's kind of hard to stay mad and kicking rocks on the edge of the field when all the other kids are having fun with their "stupid game".
The funny thing is that a few of the people I've seen continually bashing EVs (Tesla in particular) on other car forums are now starting to make noises about buying an EV. They seem to go with the flow eventually.
This is a good article on the subject: Are Electric Cars Worse for the Environment Than Gas Cars? | MotorBiscuit
> an electric car should become carbon neutral in less than 3 years of driving.
Germany here. I don't notice much Tesla-aversion, but a lot of general anti-EV resentment.
To me it seems that most of these people are actually driven by fear of the transition to electric vehicles. They fear that they lose their current knowledge, their beloved Diesel or petrol car, etc. I also sense a general fear of the new and the resulting attempts to block incoming information and instead looking for reasons not to have to think about it.
This all is then rationalized by stating that charging is difficult and time-consuming and by all kinds of wrong information about short-lived and burning batteries, use of cobalt, CO2 generated by making the cars, and so on.
You recognize these people by their first question: What is the range of your vehicle? They don't seem to understand that this is not the right question. If you really thing about charging, the right question is, how much time (and peace of mind) do I gain or lose? But they don't ask that. They always ask about the range.
On the other hand, they never seem to think about the noise and exhaust gases their vehicles blow into the ears and noses of other people in the street. This is always conveniently ignored.
But seen psychologically, at the core they fear that they would be lost if they were placed in an electric vehicle. They wouldn't know how to use and charge it.
To me it seems that there isn't much hatred, but lots of fear. Only few people sublimate that into hatred.
At least they're trying to learn. It makes sense to ask it at from their perspective, but you're right that it's not the right question. But since they asked it, I answer quickly with the a number. They expected a number, not a lecture, and anything besides a number and their eyes will glaze over and they'll think they're being deceived. It's such an easy question, after all!
The important question isn't the range, or how long it takes to charge (another common one). The important question is: How much time do you spend waiting for a charge? I try to give the answer to that unasked question it in about 10 seconds (we're fighting show attention spans, here) and then hand the conversation back the the other person.
Me: About 240 miles. It doesn't matter and I don't even look at the number unless I'm really running low. At home or on a long trip, like my last one to (some place far away to show long-distance travel is feasible), I plug it in when I'm not driving and go about my business, and come back to a full tank when I want to drive again. Easier than gas.
mk677
Member
none of you have heard of luddites? there will always be people who oppose change, oppose new technologies.
Lud·dite
noun
plural noun: Luddites
Lud·dite
noun
plural noun: Luddites
- 1.
DEROGATORY
a person opposed to new technology or ways of working.
"a small-minded Luddite resisting progress"
- 2.
HISTORICAL
a member of any of the bands of English workers who destroyed machinery, especially in cotton and woolen mills, that they believed was threatening their jobs (1811–16).
At least in the USA, a Model 3 starts off at the average price paid for a new car.
They do? Asking not arguing. I've life time free supercharging so I am curious.
Yeah, but most people have a place to park their car so eventually the people who own parking spots will be incented / compelled to provide level 2 charging. Besides which, outside of countries with 120V power, isn't most home charging level 2?
Worse case the electricity city comes from burning fossil fuels.
No, but I don't own an EV to save the planet. I own one to because I'm tired of ICE cars: oil changes, fuel pumps, spark plugs, head gaskets, transmissions, filling up with fuel, having the quick change store not properly thread the oil filter, etc. Only rich people can afford to replace ICE engines and transmissions.
I'd be perfectly comfortable if my EV used coal powered electricity. I'd prefer it over solar power actually. My attitude infuriates most EV-philes and EV-haterz, which is how I like it.
Everyone I speak to is obsessed with charging and range. It's kind of understandable really. Charging is a different way of refuelling the car and range is less than an equivalent ICE for the time being. I don't mind answering those questions. Although I do feel we have to educate sometimes. One of my friends was asking "how much for a full tank?" After I complained about the price of Shell. I told him but had to explain it didn't really work like that for EVs. Although, like me, he wouldn't have home charging so questions about the charging network are relevant. I find that for friends with houses I have to explain home charging. People still don't get that you lucky home chargers not only get cheap fuel but ALWAYS have fuel in your "tank". I think it's important we share this with people who would be able to have home charging. It blips some people's minds when they ask questions about the charging network, and when you find out they only use the car locally, that they never have to worry about it. Ever!
z
Here in the U.K. Teslas are more expensive than in USA and are priced similar to performance BMWs and Audis.
You are lucky to have free supercharging. There are some rapid chargers which don’t require a subscription here in the U.K. and are pretty close to the cost per mile of a high efficiency diesel. My Nissan Qashqai easily managed 50 MPG and some are closer to 80mpg. ‘Dieselgate’ hasn’t helped with image, but they are much cheeper to run than your average 25mpg US sedan.
Thanks for your post.
Here in the U.K. Teslas are more expensive than in USA and are priced similar to performance BMWs and Audis.
You are lucky to have free supercharging. There are some rapid chargers which don’t require a subscription here in the U.K. and are pretty close to the cost per mile of a high efficiency diesel. My Nissan Qashqai easily managed 50 MPG and some are closer to 80mpg. ‘Dieselgate’ hasn’t helped with image, but they are much cheeper to run than your average 25mpg US sedan.
ATPMSD
Active Member
What people forget is new technology is always expensive and we rely on the early adopters to bring prices down. You may not be able to afford an EV today, but you will tomorrow.
Home charging in the UK is still a fraction of the cost of diesel/petrol. Works out at about a quarter of the cost, or about a tenth on economy 7.
I think Superchargers work out at about half the cost of diesel, but I still get free charging and don't use them very often.
Hmmm. We haven't encountered EV haters, but plenty of skepticism - even from people I wouldn't expect it from. I have a friend who works at NREL, and my wife's cousin lives in Boulder, CO (very left of center, super concerned for the environment). Neither would ever consider an EV, for reasons I have been unable to uncover.
It's odd. I'd think they be at least curious. Nope. Not even.
Both have vehicles they never drive outside of the urban corridor. Neither has transportation needs that even a gen2 Nissan Leaf couldn't easily fulfill, and both drive modest ICE cars day-to-day (a Nissan Juke and an elderly Civic hybrid). The Juke is a different vehicle, but the Civic would be a candidate for replacement. To each his own I guess.
I've shared our range, cost of charging, ease of charging, performance, ride, quality/reliability, versatility (hatchback, size, interior room) - none of that matters. I think they're just flat uncomfortable with something new and unfamiliar. They hybrid is still something they understand. Full BEV, not so much.
It's odd. I'd think they be at least curious. Nope. Not even.
Both have vehicles they never drive outside of the urban corridor. Neither has transportation needs that even a gen2 Nissan Leaf couldn't easily fulfill, and both drive modest ICE cars day-to-day (a Nissan Juke and an elderly Civic hybrid). The Juke is a different vehicle, but the Civic would be a candidate for replacement. To each his own I guess.
I've shared our range, cost of charging, ease of charging, performance, ride, quality/reliability, versatility (hatchback, size, interior room) - none of that matters. I think they're just flat uncomfortable with something new and unfamiliar. They hybrid is still something they understand. Full BEV, not so much.
The average price of new cars in the US has been sky-rocketing. The numbers I'm seeing are up ~10% in the last year, about $3k, pushing into the low 40's. I have not been able to find the median price, just the "average" price, so it's unclear in my mind. I suspect it's the arithmetic average, and therefore sensitive to the sales of luxury vehicles in the pandemic, which are up. Prices of used cars are also way up in some cases. Part of the bifurcated experiences of folks in the last year here - some have done extremely well while others have suffered financial and personal catastrophes.
I would dispute that new Teslas start at the price of what middle-class folks would consider "average". Not so much if we're talking out-of-pocket cost before savings. Teslas are positioned in the market, correctly, as luxury sport vehicles, competing with likes of BMW and Audi. They may have ambitions to also compete with Chevy and Hyundai, but that hasn't happened yet, and I would advise Tesla to start a separate brand for that purpose when they get there. I think being the BMW of EVs suits them just fine.
Also, not everyone gets free super-charging. In fact, very few do nowadays as I understand matters. Operating costs per mile vary considerably by region and use. Where we live, diesel costs just a touch more than regular, making it cheaper per mile than regular (we have a Q5 TDI as our camper tug and mountain car). Charging at home can be way cheaper, but charging publicly costs quite a bit more than at home. Pricing is frankly all over the place.
gavine
Petrol Head turned EV Enthusiast
Whenever I have run-into ICE lovers who are against EVs because they are afraid they are going to lose their beloved reciprocating pistons, I just told them that more EVs means more oil left for them to burn in the future. This usually appeases them because it makes them feel like EVs are not the enemy anymore.
I also avoid the "environmental" argument. I tell them I bought a Tesla for the performance, not it's enviornmental benefits. That seems to help move the conversation along in a more positive light.
I also avoid the "environmental" argument. I tell them I bought a Tesla for the performance, not it's enviornmental benefits. That seems to help move the conversation along in a more positive light.
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