The average price of nearly everything has been sky-rocketing, so perhaps it is not that things become more valuable, but the dollar becomes less valuable. In other words, inflation.The average price of new cars in the US has been sky-rocketing.
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The average price of nearly everything has been sky-rocketing, so perhaps it is not that things become more valuable, but the dollar becomes less valuable. In other words, inflation.The average price of new cars in the US has been sky-rocketing.
Whenever I have run-into ICE lovers who are against EVs because they are afraid they are going to lose their beloved reciprocating pistons, I just told them that more EVs means more oil left for them to burn in the future.
I have to disagree.The average price of new cars in the US has been sky-rocketing. The numbers I'm seeing are up ~10% in the last year, about $3k, pushing into the low 40's. I have not been able to find the median price, just the "average" price, so it's unclear in my mind. I suspect it's the arithmetic average, and therefore sensitive to the sales of luxury vehicles in the pandemic, which are up. Prices of used cars are also way up in some cases. Part of the bifurcated experiences of folks in the last year here - some have done extremely well while others have suffered financial and personal catastrophes.
I would dispute that new Teslas start at the price of what middle-class folks would consider "average". Not so much if we're talking out-of-pocket cost before savings. Teslas are positioned in the market, correctly, as luxury sport vehicles, competing with likes of BMW and Audi. They may have ambitions to also compete with Chevy and Hyundai, but that hasn't happened yet, and I would advise Tesla to start a separate brand for that purpose when they get there. I think being the BMW of EVs suits them just fine.
Also, not everyone gets free super-charging. In fact, very few do nowadays as I understand matters. Operating costs per mile vary considerably by region and use. Where we live, diesel costs just a touch more than regular, making it cheaper per mile than regular (we have a Q5 TDI as our camper tug and mountain car). Charging at home can be way cheaper, but charging publicly costs quite a bit more than at home. Pricing is frankly all over the place.
why do you feel the need to convince anyone of anything?Whenever I have run-into ICE lovers who are against EVs because they are afraid they are going to lose their beloved reciprocating pistons, I just told them that more EVs means more oil left for them to burn in the future. This usually appeases them because it makes them feel like EVs are not the enemy anymore.
I also avoid the "environmental" argument. I tell them I bought a Tesla for the performance, not it's enviornmental benefits. That seems to help move the conversation along in a more positive light.
are you so fragile that you're affected by people who don't share your views?If you've followed the debate over Tesla for a while, you know there's a lot of people out there who hate electric cars. HATE THEM. Lots of them on SeekingAlpha. Generally they hate the environmental movement, deny global warming, and oppose renewable energy as well.
I suppose the disagree means that those tesla haters diminish your enjoyment of driving a great car.are you so fragile that you're affected by people who don't share your views?
Awesome link! Enjoyed a good laugh there.I'll just throw this here here for anyone who hasn't seen it, since it contains a lot of the content of the thread:
What it's like to own a Tesla Model S - A cartoonist's review of his magical space car - The Oatmeal
I wrote a comic about my Tesla Model S.theoatmeal.com
I have to disagree.
a 50K model 3 is not in the high price luxury category.
a Ford F150 dual cab will cost you more than what the model 3 costs.
maybe tesla has done away with free charging but porsche, audi, VW, ford, nissan and others offer free fast charging.
my porsche taycan charges a lot faster than any of my teslas ever did.
You are missing that price reflects more popular models - SUVs and pickup trucks. Comparing base price of a sedan to what general public buys does not make much sense.At least in the USA, a Model 3 starts off at the average price paid for a new car.
I have been pleased with my 2017 that I have owned since new. Also like the software updates. I can see where pre-AP2 might be better off with old versions of the software. Especially if the supercharging was slowed. But the pros for AP2 and above outweigh the cons IMO.Transition will eventually happen, but it will take time. First of all, there are not that many decent EV cars available. Not everyone likes Tesla. I owned Model S 2013-2016 and will not consider Tesla vehicles anymore. I check forums occasionally to see what's new and if anything changed, but so far situation looks the same - adding more features takes priority over having quality software releases without regressions. I am currently shopping for BMW X5 V8. Might look at BMW iX when it becomes available.
Anyway, EVs are still too expensive for general population. Yes, even base M3 is expensive. People still can get way more car for less money with regular vehicles. Most Teslas and other EVs I see around neighborhood are second and third vehicles. Average age of passenger car in the US is 10+ years. EVs have to become cheaper, faster to charge, not require replacement of major components for 15+ years. Think Toyota Corolla or Honda Accord. No one cares if car can stream Netflix or can drive itself. It has to be cheap and reliable first. People need 3 row full size SUVs for $45-50K and not $100K+. They want minivans and pickup trucks, not sedans.
Transition will eventually happen, but it will take time. First of all, there are not that many decent EV cars available. Not everyone likes Tesla. I owned Model S 2013-2016 and will not consider Tesla vehicles anymore. I check forums occasionally to see what's new and if anything changed, but so far situation looks the same - adding more features takes priority over having quality software releases without regressions. I am currently shopping for BMW X5 V8. Might look at BMW iX when it becomes available.
Check software forums on this very site. Same stuff - updates break things. Bugs I reported years ago are still there. Perhaps they are in places that are not important to you.I have been pleased with my 2017 that I have owned since new. Also like the software updates. I can see where pre-AP2 might be better off with old versions of the software. Especially if the supercharging was slowed. But the pros for AP2 and above outweigh the cons IMO.
The only thing I did like with the older software was the ability to have two windows open and positioned how you wanted them. But not “that” big of deal with the current setup.
Not so much in Europe. Over on this side of the pond they mainly want hatchbacks and smaller 5 seat SUVs. "Sedans" are also still pretty popular. The North American market is quite different, although there is now perhaps more overlap than there used to be as US buyers downsize and Europeans upsize their vehicles. Pickup trucks are even becoming a "lifestyle" choice in the UK now, but still very much a niche market here. Minivans are popular among families, but about half the size of what you would be used to!People need 3 row full size SUVs for $45-50K and not $100K+. They want minivans and pickup trucks, not sedans.
Yep.If you've followed the debate over Tesla for a while, you know there's a lot of people out there who hate electric cars. HATE THEM. Lots of them on SeekingAlpha. Generally they hate the environmental movement, deny global warming, and oppose renewable energy as well.
Agree.The history of tech transitions is that they start out slow and then happen really fast. It takes a long time for the new tech to go from 0 to 10% marketshare, but then it goes from 10% to 90% almost overnight*. Landline to cell phone, dumb phone to smart phone, film camera to digital, tube TV to flat screen, propeller to jet airliners, and many other examples. It's very likely going to be the same with EVs.
*"Almost overnight" means about two product cycles. Automotive product cycles are ~6 years, so I think within about a dozen years of EVs hitting 10% market share, new car sales will be almost all EVs.
I have a very small sample size, personal bias, etc., but here in Texas I'm sensing a pro-Tesla vibe as of late. The fact that Tesla is building a plant in Texas, and not California (boo!) is the reason.Yep.
EVs have been politicalized in America. There is a large segment that otherwise don’t care about cars that are against them. Largely based on ignorance and being the easy targets of those that gain from delaying EV adoption.
Whether they hate EVs because of Tesla or they started hating Tesla because it’s EV is hard to say. Normally these same fools would be championing an American company, but you’ll find most of these folks aren’t bound by reason or logic. Anyone willing to buy the anti-EV narratives are likely continually easily duped in most things.