How is the 3 without the HEPA filter?

[Uncle Paul]

This impressive video measures the reduction in particulate counts with recirculation. It does not measure the reduction in smells while driving without stale air recirculation.
OP is wanting to be able to drive normally with sweet smelling, pollen free, fresh air being cleaned prior to entering the cabin. That is where the true HEPA giant filter shines.

 

[kbecks13]

This impressive video measures the reduction in particulate counts with recirculation. It does not measure the reduction in smells while driving without stale air recirculation.
OP is wanting to be able to drive normally with sweet smelling, pollen free, fresh air being cleaned prior to entering the cabin. That is where the true HEPA giant filter shines.

True, but HEPA doesn't do much for smells, you need activated carbon for that. I know that model 3 definitely doesn't filter bad smells as well as S/X from driving past the cows near Bakersfield, but i also heard a Model S owner say they could smell it as well. The video does show substantial reduction in particulates which is key for allergies though

Again, as others have said, the Model 3 isn't really in the same class as S/X. Sounds like OP wants a classic luxury car and should probably choose something else, maybe Taycan would be up his alley.

 

[dhanson865]

This impressive video measures the reduction in particulate counts with recirculation. It does not measure the reduction in smells while driving without stale air recirculation.
OP is wanting to be able to drive normally with sweet smelling, pollen free, fresh air being cleaned prior to entering the cabin. That is where the true HEPA giant filter shines.

Really it does show the lack of reduction with fresh air through the filter

* 5 units on recirculate (eventually, started out much higher so anywhere between 5 and your outside number)
* 75 units on outside air through the filter
* 100 units when he stuck it out the window at the end.

Pretty obvious 3/4 of the stuff is coming through if you don't keep it on recirculate.

 

[Ofarlig]

the giant HEPA filter is one of the premium (now standard) features of the S and X. Provides clean, healthy and dust free air to the occupants. Amazing how it stops smelly cow, diesel, smoke and pollen from entering the passenger compartment during normal activation.

Model 3 does not have this protective layer, but has two internal non-HEPA filters that do a pretty good job of cleaning the air as will.

From what I understand, the aftermarket filters are not certified as HEPA. They may have activated charcoal to reduce smells, but not up to the levels of S & X.

On the other hand, the OP has good thoughts, as the Model 3 might fit their new needs of an occasional city car. It is more nimble in crowded cities, easier to park, far less expensive and still stylish and certainly aspirational. Just will not have the same smell removing capabilities. Inside the city the air and road noise should not be much of an issue, as it usually only becomes annoying at higher cruising speeds. Seems like Wife will be driving it most of the time and may not have the same adversion to smells and road noise.

Yeah you are spot on really. I liked the niceties of the S but living dead center in the city with no kids and the car being used mostly by the wife to commute for 15 minutes and on every other weekend tops it doesn't make too much sense spending the extra money on an S for us. Doesn't mean I won't miss the nice things about the S though.

Check this video out:

View attachment 494130

That one mostly shows me it doesn't really remove that much particles at all when taking in fresh air. Might be a problem for me during pollen season, you don't want to just use recirc.

Again, as others have said, the Model 3 isn't really in the same class as S/X. Sounds like OP wants a classic luxury car and should probably choose something else, maybe Taycan would be up his alley.

What I am looking for is more premium car than luxury car really, problem is I also like EVs and the software side of Tesla. The S is their premium car equivalent really so I am just wondering how much I need to give up when saving money and getting the 3.

 

[Uncle Paul]

Another option may be coming down the pike. Elon responded to a question as to the new Model Y coming with a full HEPA filtering system replied "sort of". Leads some to believe that the Y will have a better filter system than the 3, but not quite as much as the X/S.

Sounds like the Y will be coming with some of the latest innovations, plus things they have learned from the Model 3 experience.
With the Y sitting up a bit higher than the 3, it should be an even better city car. Perhaps it will have less road noise as well.

With resale on the Model S still maintaining good value, perhaps you can buy a new 3/Y and maybe even put some $$$ back into your pocket.

 

[Ofarlig]

Another option may be coming down the pike. Elon responded to a question as to the new Model Y coming with a full HEPA filtering system replied "sort of". Leads some to believe that the Y will have a better filter system than the 3, but not quite as much as the X/S.

Sounds like the Y will be coming with some of the latest innovations, plus things they have learned from the Model 3 experience.
With the Y sitting up a bit higher than the 3, it should be an even better city car. Perhaps it will have less road noise as well.

With resale on the Model S still maintaining good value, perhaps you can buy a new 3/Y and maybe even put some $$$ back into your pocket.

Yeah the Y might be interesting even though we aren't really CUV/SUV people, it seems to have a foldable rear middle seat which would be worth gold all the times we go skiing. Living in Sweden means I can buy a 3 and have it for quite a while before I could get my hands on a Y anyway so I don't have make up my mind now.

Already sold the S 2 months ago since I believed the offer I got from a dealer was above what it should have been worth. It seems I was right to sell as the dealers are now offering 15% less for similar cars.

 

[mswlogo]

Is biohazard Mode (not what OP asked for I know) a form of recirculate or fresh air?

 

[Big Earl]

It’s a trade off. Fresh air is dirty but flushes CO2 out of the cabin. Recirculated air is cleaner but CO2 will quickly build to unhealthy levels. True HEPA like S & X way to go. Unfortunately, there is no room in the 3 for a filter of that size without significantly compromising front trunk space. I’m not interested in experimenting with the small aftermarket HEPA filters... too small and restrictive to perform well for a reasonable change interval.

 

[Need]

It’s a trade off. Fresh air is dirty but flushes CO2 out of the cabin. Recirculated air is cleaner but CO2 will quickly build to unhealthy levels.

Pretty sure all the newer cars have solutions for recirculated air and CO2 level. Usually they just let in air every 10 to 20 min or they have build in CO2 detection and open the vent when needed. Living in LA, I used to have my car in recirculate full time and I drive 3+ hours a day. I can't do that with M3 as I also like to set the AC to auto and you can't do that with the M3 (auto + recirculate).

 

[morningstar]

Yeah it seems pretty much the same as other cars to me. I was once in a line of traffic and could tell the people in the car in front of me were smoking weed. All my windows were up and theirs were too! I didn't smell their exhaust, but I sure knew what was going on inside their car!

 

[Big Earl]

Pretty sure all the newer cars have solutions for recirculated air and CO2 level. Usually they just let in air every 10 to 20 min or they have build in CO2 detection and open the vent when needed. Living in LA, I used to have my car in recirculate full time and I drive 3+ hours a day. I can't do that with M3 as I also like to set the AC to auto and you can't do that with the M3 (auto + recirculate).

Sure you can. Bring up climate control, press auto once, then press recirculate once. Both auto and recirculate buttons should be blue.

I can’t think of a single vehicle with an interior CO2 sensor. Some cars have a humidity sensor to switch back to fresh air when necessary. Others manage CO2 by cycling recirculate on and off at a fixed interval or by offering a partial recirculate mode. I’ll carry around my CO2 meter for a few days and see how the Model 3 behaves.

 

[Need]

Sure you can. Bring up climate control, press auto once, then press recirculate once. Both auto and recirculate buttons should be blue.

I can’t think of a single vehicle with an interior CO2 sensor. Some cars have a humidity sensor to switch back to fresh air when necessary. Others manage CO2 by cycling recirculate on and off at a fixed interval or by offering a partial recirculate mode. I’ll carry around my CO2 meter for a few days and see how the Model 3 behaves.

Interesting. I swear I was not able to do this before.. I will try it next time I drive. Or maybe I will wait until you finish your CO2 test LOL.

 

[OCR1]

The Model 3 does not have any activated charcoal so it will not do anything to remove odors in the car. You could buy a simple activated charcoal bag like this one:

https://www.amazon.com/Activated-Ch...9Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

But it will still not be as effective as a filtration system which incorporates both HEPA and activated charcoal into the same system because an integrated system will bring the air into the cabin and actively push it through both the charcoal and the HEPA filter, and clean air will come out the other side. With the charcoal bag like the one above it is passive so it will absorb some odor but nothing is forcing the air through the bag so it’s not going to be all that effective.

There are a number of companies selling “HEPA” filters for the Model 3 which are false advertising. None of them have a tight enough weave in their filters to effectively filter out 99.7% of particles as small as .3 micrometers. The problem with adding a HEPA filter to a system not designed to handle it is that the reduced airflow puts extra stress on the system. If the fan is not designed to withstand the pressure created by the tighter weave of a HEPA filter it may burn out, or at a minimum reduce airflow below an acceptable limit.

The filters in the S and X are huge. This is why they can accommodate true HEPA filtering. I don’t see it being possible in the Model 3.

 

[Magnets!]

Decided to sell my S and looking to get a 3, I don’t particulary like the 3 since I find it feeling quite cheap so it isn’t really a switch I am looking forward to. But since we don’t really need a car to begin with it doesn’t make sense to spend the extra for the S anymore. Wanted to go for a P to at least give me something fun but after testing P/LR AWD back to back the tire noise from the 20” was unbearable so ill have to settle for the LR AWD with acceleration boost.

The big question is with the lack of a HEPA filter in the 3, since I am allergic to pollen I loved the clean air in the S. No smells and no pollen, how is this in the 3? Do you smell anything if you are behind a dirty diesel truck spewing out black smoke? While going past some sort of smelly plant or fertilized farmland? Any pollen getting in?

Test drive a different P, they are no noisier. You'd think they might be, but I think the softer rubber compound on the Pilots offset the lower profile.

 

[Ofarlig]

Test drive a different P, they are no noisier. You'd think they might be, but I think the softer rubber compound on the Pilots offset the lower profile.

I tested multiple ones, even tested both cars with the same tire on (winter tires). It is night and day really which isn’t really surprising.

Cant’t see how the Pilot Sport 4s on the P would be much softer than whats on the LR.

 

[Andrew_SE23]

I wonder if Tesla’s push into China with the Model 3 will provide better aftermarket air filtration systems as cabin air quality will be a much more important issue for Chinese residents.

 

[Marius A]

Fwiw: I've had no issues with pollen in my car, and I live in prescriptive allergy meds half of the year.

I recently changed from a LR AWD to a P, and the noise level is not any higher because of the tires (the noise is actually lower, but that's because of the newer build improvements and nothing to do with the tires). If the TM3 is good enough then you should probably look into aftermarket cars, the combination of performance and quality found in the TM3 is not available anywhere else for the some price level (provided you get a car without quality issues)

 

[Watts_Up]

The big question is with the lack of a HEPA filter in the 3, since I am allergic to pollen I loved the clean air in the S.
No smells and no pollen, how is this in the 3? Do you smell anything if you are behind a dirty diesel truck spewing out black smoke?
While going past some sort of smelly plant or fertilized farmland? Any pollen getting in?

I wonder how you feel when you have to fly for a long trip?
With the air recirculation inside airplanes, I always feel sick when I arrive at destination.

 

[MacGreiner]

I've tried both and the Model 3 filter just aint no HEPA.

 

[hydro 481]

OP you are too good for the lowly Model 3. You deserve a real car like the Porsche Taycan!

But seriously I can relate with most of your concerns but the way you worded things makes you come across a little snobbish. “Hey guys your car is a cheap piece of junk but please tell me about that HEPA filter!” I mean, was it necessary to preface your question with the whole “I hate to be settling for this cheap Model 3 since my Model S was so much better” rant?