How trustworthy is Tesla's predicted "2015, 2016" supercharger map?

[wk057]

US-40 would work just fine. No need to go through Kansas. Just use the destination chargers for the two gaps.

You're talking about adding at least a full day travel time...

Personally, the supercharger network build out was sufficient for the trips I regularly made back in late 2013 when I bought my P85.

Lately there have been some trips come up where the network just isn't there and I've been forced to utilize alternative transportation (flying, ICE rentals), which is disappointing. I had figured Tesla would have at least had all of the dots from the old 2014 map done by now, but they don't.

(March 2014 copy of "2014" map from TeslaMotors.com)

Maybe in terms of count they may have caught up with this by now, but they've skipped a bunch in the south-east that I've been waiting on.

Edit:

Oh, and lets not forget what the "2015" map looked like 18 months ago:

 

[travwill]

I sure hope the close the huge gaps around Arkansas/Missouri/Mississippi/Tennessee areas. Right now to drive from Chicago to Houston where family is would route us anywhere from 400-1000 extra miles due to lake of superchargers along the most direct highway routes.

 

[iadbound]

That said, it's not all bad. In fact, even if the SC network is not "finished" until 2018, it will still represent the most significant distance EV-related achievement (on the road) in human history. In just 5 years. It's phenomenal any way you slice it.

. . . .

In in the end, it'll get done when it's done. They will not be finished by the end of 2016 unless more resources are added, and unless some miracles happen with certain permit processes. Some would say it's easier to land a rocket on a floating barge than to light a fire under an entrenched local or regional bureaucracy.

I hope that Tesla is never "finished" building out the Supercharger system. As the number of Teslas on the road increases, the need for more Supercharging locations will grow and current locations will probably need to be expanded too. I don't really know what the ideal number of supercharging locations would be, but I expect that it is far more than Tesla has scheduled for now (even if Tesla did complete the 2015 and 2016 maps shown on the website today).

 

[TaoJones]

Agreed - hence the quotes. In this context, "finished" reflects only the wishful thinking in the yearly wishcasts, which, near as I can tell, were not updated to reflect the new commitment to density as well as distance.

It's a delicate balance, without additional resources and in the face of greater effort (time alone, if not expertise) required to move intransigent bureaucracies, to fill the gaps that need to be filled for realistic transcontinental travel to happen.

What's not realistic is expecting people to embrace 700-mile detours and extra nights of lodging without experiencing all sorts of pushback in the domestic harmony department.

 

[iadbound]

What's not realistic is expecting people to embrace 700-mile detours and extra nights of lodging without experiencing all sorts of pushback in the domestic harmony department.

Dead on!! Frankly, I'm not looking to make a 700-mile detour when driving by myself. I already made a much smaller detour, roughly 70 miles, three times this summer (same trip each time) and concluded that it was workable but irritating, especially since the longer route required using I-95 and the New Jersey Turnpike.

 

[jaguar36]

If only that March 2014 map was true, woulda saved me a few hours driving to Pittsburgh and back this weekend.

Still, we were able to make the trip quite easily with no range anxiety at all. Plus not once did we have to wait for the car, it was always done charging before we were ready to leave.

 

[FlasherZ]

Dead on!! Frankly, I'm not looking to make a 700-mile detour when driving by myself. I already made a much smaller detour, roughly 70 miles, three times this summer (same trip each time) and concluded that it was workable but irritating, especially since the longer route required using I-95 and the New Jersey Turnpike.

I'd happily do 70 miles more without an issue. 700 is a "no way" scenario for me.

Re-routing through Indianapolis for the St. Louis to Florida route was 225 extra miles and 3 extra SC stops each way, but we made it in roughly the same amount of absolute time by driving a bit later into the night, and leaving earlier in the morning, along with eating at less healthy places. Only 1 more SC is required to eliminate 225 extra miles and about 1 1/2 hours of charging each way.

 

[wk057]

Currently I have a trip planned that is +170 miles, due to lack of superchargers on I-77. The only reason I'm bothering is because I'm not heading back in that direction and instead heading back towards the east coast when I'm done at the first stop, then the rest is easy.

 

[BerTX]

I'd happily do 70 miles more without an issue. 700 is a "no way" scenario for me.

Re-routing through Indianapolis for the St. Louis to Florida route was 225 extra miles and 3 extra SC stops each way, but we made it in roughly the same amount of absolute time by driving a bit later into the night, and leaving earlier in the morning, along with eating at less healthy places. Only 1 more SC is required to eliminate 225 extra miles and about 1 1/2 hours of charging each way.

Am I the only not-yet-a-Tesla-owner who is befuddled by all of this boo-hooing about having to drive your dream car extra miles, for free? At what point in ownership does driving a Tesla become such a miserable chore? :wink:

 

[jaguar36]

Currently I have a trip planned that is +170 miles, due to lack of superchargers on I-77. The only reason I'm bothering is because I'm not heading back in that direction and instead heading back towards the east coast when I'm done at the first stop, then the rest is easy.

That seems like a time to rent a ICE instead. I dislike the double whammy that not only do you have to go farther and take longer going out of your way, but then you also have to spend extra time charging to make up for it as well.

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Am I the only not-yet-a-Tesla-owner who is befuddled by all of this boo-hooing about having to drive your dream car extra miles, for free? At what point in ownership does driving a Tesla become such a miserable chore? :wink:

Its not free, it costs you 3-4 hours, plus 170 miles of wear and tear on the car.

 

[mmccord]

If only that March 2014 map was true, woulda saved me a few hours driving to Pittsburgh and back this weekend.

Still, we were able to make the trip quite easily with no range anxiety at all. Plus not once did we have to wait for the car, it was always done charging before we were ready to leave.

What route did you take? I drive NY <> Pittsburgh regularly.

 

[TaoJones]

Am I the only not-yet-a-Tesla-owner who is befuddled by all of this boo-hooing about having to drive your dream car extra miles, for free? At what point in ownership does driving a Tesla become such a miserable chore? :wink:

Boo-hooing, eh? Let's see if we can remove some of that befuddlement:

Being stuck at a level 2 charger in Podunk while paying for overpriced, substandard lodging and food because Tesla can't meet its own targets is not driving the car.

Adding wear and tear and wasting time and incurring additional risk by having to drive through Tornado Alley or worse, the Bible Belt (I kid, I kid) because, for example, little to no progress has been made toward southwestern I-10 SCs is not driving the car in a feasible manner.

By the time you are an owner (good choice, btw), you will find that *driving* the car is the best part about owning a Tesla.

Dealing with the chronic disconnects between what's communicated/not communicated and reality is *not* the best part about owning a Tesla - whether for SCs/lack of consistent SC progress, service inconsistencies, communication disconnects, ESA per-issue fees, B pillar/headliner failures, or any number of other generally unnecessary but frustrating details that in the end cost owners time and money.

This SC stuff is just one straw .

Driving the car is what makes any of the above even vaguely tolerable. But free? Noooooo. Light several $100 bills on fire per week* to play in this arena. *Then* it's free

* Caveat being the stellar opportunities that will be available "soon" via CPO cars. For example, in 2-3 years, some of the higher mileage Ludicrous-equipped cars will be available for $35K +/-. That's 0-60mph in 2.8s for the price of a (insert nasty ICE vehicle here)!!! And by then (bonus), most of this kvetching about SCs should have shifted from buildout malaise to usage malaise. That will be so much better

The future is bright, by any measure. But right now, contrary to what one has been led to believe via the SC progress maps, it may take an extra few days yet to make that round trip. No big deal for retirees or single people, maybe.

Driving the car is great. Explaining the delays referenced above to the wife, who will note several times that she only has so many vacation days and that the SC maps seemed much more complete when deciding to buy the car, or explaining not for the first time that we're not there yet to a small child... yeah, not so much.

 

[jaguar36]

* Caveat being the stellar opportunities that will be available "soon" via CPO cars. For example, in 2-3 years, some of the higher mileage Ludicrous-equipped cars will be available for $35K +/-. That's 0-60mph in 2.8s for the price of a (insert nasty ICE vehicle here)!!! And by then (bonus), most of this kvetching about SCs should have shifted from buildout malaise to usage malaise. That will be so much better

Except for the fact that those used cars are looking like they will be requiring thousands of dollars a year in maintenance.

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What route did you take? I drive NY <> Pittsburgh regularly.

We're outside of Philly so I went down through Maryland. Added an hour or so each way of driving, plus another half hour or so of charing, plus a half hour or so of traffic :-/

 

[mmccord]

We're outside of Philly so I went down through Maryland. Added an hour or so each way of driving, plus another half hour or so of charing, plus a half hour or so of traffic :-/

There is a chademo charger at the sheetz @ 4001 Union Deposit Road, Harrisburg, PA 17109 . ~20 minutes ($4) there should get you to somerset if you left the Trenton/Philly area with a full charge. Of course, the adapter is $450 if you don't already own one...

I make cross-PA trips enough that the adapter is a must-have for me.

 

[bcsteeve]

I haven't kept up with this thread I started (some reason didn't get notifications so I thought it died).

TaoJones makes some points that has me confirming that I'll probably be cancelling my reservation in the next couple days. I don't know what, "ESA per-issue fees" means but it can't be good. I was so excited to get one... but I think the writing is on the wall and it is too soon for me. For this kind of money, I really need the perfection I thought this car and company represented, on paper at least.

This particular topic has little to do with the decision. Its all the other things I've been reading about. While I completely misunderstood the charging regime (home vs "local" vs travel), I accept the reality and I'm fine with it and the progress being made on the SC locations.

Maybe some day.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

TaoJones makes some points that has me confirming that I'll probably be cancelling my reservation in the next couple days. I don't know what, "ESA per-issue fees" means but it can't be good. I was so excited to get one... but I think the writing is on the wall and it is too soon for me. For this kind of money, I really need the perfection I thought this car and company represented, on paper at least.

I believe he was referring to the per-issue fees of $200 each (in the U.S.) for any issue during the Extended Service Agreement (ESA). Of course the ESA itself costs $4000.

 

[jaguar36]

There is a chademo charger at the sheetz @ 4001 Union Deposit Road, Harrisburg, PA 17109 . ~20 minutes ($4) there should get you to somerset if you left the Trenton/Philly area with a full charge. Of course, the adapter is $450 if you don't already own one...

I make cross-PA trips enough that the adapter is a must-have for me.

Yep, not worth it for us to buy the adapter. I had hoped to borrow one for the trip, but couldn't find anyone around who had one to lend.

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I haven't kept up with this thread I started (some reason didn't get notifications so I thought it died).

TaoJones makes some points that has me confirming that I'll probably be cancelling my reservation in the next couple days. I don't know what, "ESA per-issue fees" means but it can't be good. I was so excited to get one... but I think the writing is on the wall and it is too soon for me. For this kind of money, I really need the perfection I thought this car and company represented, on paper at least.

This particular topic has little to do with the decision. Its all the other things I've been reading about. While I completely misunderstood the charging regime (home vs "local" vs travel), I accept the reality and I'm fine with it and the progress being made on the SC locations.

Maybe some day.

The charging really shouldn't be a deterrent, particularly with the ridiculously fast rate with which Tesla has been setting up locations.

The service and repair issue is significant, but determining how many issues a car has (and more importantly how many a new car with all the latest fixes will have) is a very difficult task. Trying to determine product reliability from a forum is a fools errand as only the people with issues will post. However it does seem like Tesla is at least aware of the issue and trying at some level to remedy it (evidence being the recent price drop in repair parts).

The car, nor the company is not perfect, and the most important thing to realize is that what Elon says does not necessarily have anything to do with how the company operates. Once you understand that, its a fantastic car, if it ends up cost a couple extra bucks for service, its still worth it.

 

[Sosius]

What's not realistic is expecting people to embrace 700-mile detours and extra nights of lodging without experiencing all sorts of pushback in the domestic harmony department.

Truth!

 

[jerry33]

Am I the only not-yet-a-Tesla-owner who is befuddled by all of this boo-hooing about having to drive your dream car extra miles, for free? At what point in ownership does driving a Tesla become such a miserable chore? :wink:

I've had my Model S for 2.5 years and 55K miles. When I first got it there were only two SCs, and those were in California, which is halfway across the continent. I used RV parks for long distance trips and had no problems--it's only been in the past year that I could use SCs for my most common trip, and less than that to use only SCs on my normal trips. Just a couple of weeks ago we did a vacation trip from DFW to the Seattle area. The most direct route hadn't been completed so it was about 300 miles extra each way--about 10% longer. Of course, it will be nice when every route is covered, and there are some places where RV parks and destination chargers are the only options, but it was a good experience 2.5 years ago and it's a great experience now.

One thing about this forum (and every other automotive forum I've been on) is that folks get real emotional if what they want wasn't available yesterday. You can find many old threads that show this. In general Tesla does the right thing, but not as quickly as everyone would like and occasionally they need a bit of prodding. As far as I know, the only things they haven't come through on are an API for third party Apps, and lighted vanity mirrors.

 

[pedriscoll]

Overall the progress in building out the supercharger network has been remarkable. I just wish there was a SC on I-65 between Indianapolis and Nashville, about a 300 mile stretch. Louisville is listed on the 2015 map but I have seen not progress in that area. My daughter lives in Louisville and the 280 mile round trip is outside my 85D's range. A SC in L'ville would make our trips to see the grandkids much easier.