HPWC Requires at least a 60amp circuit???

[jjrandorin]

@jjrandorin, I guess I didn't appreciate the last comment basically saying I'm spreading lies, or whatever. I have heard serious, trustable people explain what I'm saying. But hey, it might not hold true in the USA. Anyway, trying to help, I'm happy if I'm wrong, it's not required and you can save money.

I totally get it, and also know that you go out of your way to help people here on TMC, so dont stress about it at all.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

It's because you could technically change the setting after he's gone, back to 60 A. I believe they are forced to install it that way to respect code. If you don't want to understand, I'll leave it up to you...

No, you're just making stuff up. There is no such rule, not even in Canada.

The electrician just glanced at the specs and saw 60A, that's all. He's not a bad electrician, he just didn't go download the manual and read thru it before quoting. The OP just has to let him know that 50A is OK per the manual and it'll be settled.

Though still I don't understand why 50A is any cheaper/easier than 60A.

 

[Jeremy3292]

But why is the difference between 50A and 60A even a question? The wire size is the same

A 50 amp breaker is 8 gauge THHN whereas a 60 amp breaker is 6 gauge, no?

 

[GtiMart]

Making stuff up... Come on, it's not because you don't know that it doesn't exist. Read this if you want to take the time, and translate it to English if you can't read French : Bornes de recharge ajustables | Informel - CMEQ

The new 2020 code in Quebec only now allows electricians to install reduced amp wiring for a charger if only they can access the amp selection mechanism. This does not apply if it's easy for the user to change the setting, like in the case of the gen3. In all other cases they MUST install the maximum that the equipment can pull.

Now, maybe only the province of Quebec applies those rules but hey, I'm not pulling this out of my ***. Come on.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

Making stuff up... Come on, it's not because you don't know that it doesn't exist. Read this if you want to take the time, and translate it to English if you can't read French : Bornes de recharge ajustables | Informel - CMEQ

Oh, I was talking about Canada. Not "French" Canada. But you're right, the former rules failed to accommodate adjustable current devices. The article you referenced says that the mistake has been corrected and these devices can now be installed as intended so long as:

"Access to the compartment or an administrator interface allowing the intensity of the terminal must be done only by the use of a special tool or an access code reserved for the electrical contractor. In this sense, it must not be possible to change the intensity of the terminal either remotely or by a simple interface accessible to the user."

The Gen 3 HPWC meets these definitions of course (since the rule was surely updated specifically for the Tesla HPWC) as the limits cannot be changed remotely - you must cycle power at the breaker in order to find the WiFi SSID which is only broadcast for 5 minutes. It is also not "simple" as you need to have the "access code" from the installation documents. See the commissioning procedure here: https://www.tesla.com/sites/default...ng/Gen3_WallConnector_Installation_Manual.pdf

In fact, it's conceivable that the Gen 3 interface was developed specifically to address this concern. Previous HPWC's required nothing more than a strong set of fingernails to adjust.

 

[GtiMart]

I've heard (indirect) reports of electricians saying the gen 3 still didn't meet the requirements, but that might have been misunderstanding. I used that as a possible explanation for the OP's electrician's answer.

Thanks for taking the time to read what I linked. It's all good if it doesn't apply here.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

Yeah the updated rules are still quite poorly written, they make it sound like there's some sort of sorcerer's gauntlet that only electricians could possibly access. Then they specifically say that you must not be be able to simply whip out your phone and adjust it wirelessly. And the super-secret password can only ever be whispered amongst electricians...

Doh. Clearly they wanted to prevent people from claiming code compliance on the basis that the charge current was voluntarily limited "in the app", but they couldn't figure out how to word it properly. I can see why people would conclude that Tesla's system is non-compliant with Quebec's odd city code.

 

[holeydonut]

The Gen 3 HPWC meets these definitions of course (since the rule was surely updated specifically for the Tesla HPWC) as the limits cannot be changed remotely - you must cycle power at the breaker in order to find the WiFi SSID which is only broadcast for 5 minutes. It is also not "simple" as you need to have the "access code" from the installation documents. See the commissioning procedure here: https://www.tesla.com/sites/default...ng/Gen3_WallConnector_Installation_Manual.pdf

You can also hold the button on the HPWC plug for 5 seconds, and it'll activate the WiFi SSID to allow a mobile device to connect. Easier than power-cycling the breaker if you want to check the settings.

I also cut out the part of the manual with the SSID password and taped it to the side of the HPWC. I cannot imagine why someone thought it'd be a good idea to print a whack-password in some brochure and expect that thing to be found in few years.

 

[ATPMSD]

Not that it really matters but the term HPWC refers to the Generation 2 High Power Wall Connector. The current model is the Generation 3 Tesla Wall Connector, which is often referred to as TWC of just Wall Connector.

 

[rcmx]

So the ultimate answer from the electrician, when pressed, was that if the device was capable of being configured to work on a 60amp circuit, that he had to install it on a 60amp circuit. The worry being that somebody would install it on say...a 50amp circuit...and then configure it to try and draw as if it were 60am (in the HPWC config settings)...in an effort to get more out of it...and potentially create a safety hazard. Anyway, I'm not an electrician, but that is what was explained to me.

 

[holeydonut]

So the ultimate answer from the electrician, when pressed, was that if the device was capable of being configured to work on a 60amp circuit, that he had to install it on a 60amp circuit. The worry being that somebody would install it on say...a 50amp circuit...and then configure it to try and draw as if it were 60am (in the HPWC config settings)...in an effort to get more out of it...and potentially create a safety hazard. Anyway, I'm not an electrician, but that is what was explained to me.

Yeah that’s probably his own personal code of conduct. Guess you need a new electrician.

 

[holeydonut]

Not that it really matters but the term HPWC refers to the Generation 2 High Power Wall Connector. The current model is the Generation 3 Tesla Wall Connector, which is often referred to as TWC of just Wall Connector.

@jjrandorin should update the label of this sub to include "Gen 2 HPWC & Gen 3 TWC (which looks more badass than the HPWC)"

 

[Rocky_H]

So the ultimate answer from the electrician, when pressed, was that if the device was capable of being configured to work on a 60amp circuit, that he had to install it on a 60amp circuit. The worry being that somebody would install it on say...a 50amp circuit...and then configure it to try and draw as if it were 60am (in the HPWC config settings)...in an effort to get more out of it...and potentially create a safety hazard. Anyway, I'm not an electrician, but that is what was explained to me.

Huh. Well that is certainly not requirement or electric code. That's just what he wants to do. Personally I wouldn't work with someone like that. This is a device that is intended to be installed on and configured on several choices of circuit sizes. If he doesn't want to work with a device like that, installing it properly, according to the manufacturer's instructions, then I would not try to put that square peg into a round hole. He can go do other work he is comfortable with.