-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
They already took away parking assistance, 90mph top speed, follow distance of 1... what else can they take away "for a brief period"
DarkForest
10.69 made me a shill
They already took away parking assistance, 90mph top speed, follow distance of 1... what else can they take away "for a brief period"
- Controlling the windows through the mobile app
- Controlling the windows prior to pressing the brake pedal
- Closing the trunk with a button
- Setting a speed above the posted limit
- Turning on the ac/heater below 20% SOC (a recent feature)
- Preconditioning the vehicle while it’s charging (a potential fire hazard)
- Auto-wipers
- Putting the vehicle in reverse prior to coming to a complete stop
- Autopilot at night
- Smart lights that use the matrix headlights (wait, we still haven’t gotten that)
- Accelerating as fast as it does today (2 fast 2 dangerous)
- Dog mode
- Follow distance of 2
I don’t know… all sorts of things can be taken away “briefly” for one reason or another.
What's infuriating is that this actually works under some conditions. Or maybe I'm thinking of the inverse (reverse to drive). Sometimes I do have to bring the car to a full stop with the brake pedal. But sometimes not.
BitJam
Active Member
Good points but IMO excitement is only warranted if FSD performs much better on the new hardware. It seems premature for people to be talking about law suits and so forth. If someone (not you, of course) thinks FSD on hw4 is going to be vastly better than FSD on hw3 then they've been drinking too much of the Kool-Aid.
Elon projects that hw4 will be twice as safe as hw3. The new cpus will only be twice as fast as the current ones while memory and storage stayed the same. More cameras in strategic positions and higher resolution cameras will help in some circumstances but they're not going to fuel the revolutionary change needed to get to levels 3 -- 5. Nor will the addition of radar.
Some people talk about FSD improving exponentially. This seems like utter nonsense to me. Elon said the improvement is piecewise logarithmic which is close to the opposite of exponential. Yes, FSD is getting better but I see no evidence that unaided FSD will become safer than humans any time soon or any year soon. People like Chuck Cook and Dirty Tesla who use it frequently and report on what it does seem to agree. A radical change in the rate of improvement is needed. We need a factor of 100 or more but hw4 is only giving us a factor of two.
I'm reminded of this Sidney Harris cartoon:
anyone remember HW2? That was supposed to be FSD capable as well, as far as I remember.
No the difference is I post actual facts from thousands of hours of research and you post random surface articles and claim they are contradicting evidence.
Tesla's prototypes DOES NOT predate Mobileye BECAUSE they are using the EXACT SAME Mobileye tri-focal tech. They are using the same trifocal camera in Mobileye's patent.
But here you are a Tesla fan telling me that the Tesla prototype predated Mobileye yet Mobileye somehow was able to file a patent in 2014 for that same trifocal camera module. The exact same might i add. Not only that, but Mobileye also have videos from 2014 of the same trifocal camera module. Not only that but other OEMs were seen testing that exact SAME trifocal camera.
You Tesla fans do have a way with twisted logics, its truly amazing.
Mobileye's Patent filed in 2014
US20150103159A1 - Forward-facing multi-imaging system for navigating a vehicle - Google Patents
Systems and methods use cameras to provide autonomous navigation features. In one implementation, a driver-assist system is provided for a vehicle. The system may include one or more image capture devices configured to acquire images of an area forward of the vehicle. The system may also include...
patents.google.com
Mobileye Trifocal camera explained in 2014 Video
Here is a picture of one of the Mobileye's trifocal camera module device from the patent, notice its the same device that Tesla and other OEMs like Volvo were testing with.
Here you are doing it AGAIN. You take a random article, you don't even do 10 seconds of research and you make proclamations and assertions that are NOT true.
Did you follow the entire Nvidia Drive PX development? Did you watch every single tech talk about Drive PX to confirm? Did you read all the technical papers/documentations? No you didn't, not even a single one.
If you did you would discover that Nvidia did NOT use the surround cameras for ADAS algorithms, but for parking features (bird's eye view, open space, etc). As you can easily see displayed in their provided images.
Note I didn't say Mobileye was the first to put 4 surround parking cameras. Infact I said automakers have been putting it on their cars for almost a decade. But that they weren't USED for ADAS. Even today not a single traditional (keyword) automaker uses the parking cameras for ADAS. I don't make up these statements. I make statements because I have done thousands of hours of research, not because i looked up a random article and think it will help me with my bias.
Secondly I said Mobileye were the first to put side looking cameras on side mirrors PERIOD.
Again these are facts, if you want to refute me on them then provide the ACTUAL evidence. Again, I don't make up these statements. I make statements because I have done thousands of hours of research, not because i looked up a random article.
Last edited:
It seems to me that the logical choice would be to move both the side rear camera and side front camera to the OSRV mirror assembly. The repeater light could also be moved there, eliminating the repeater and its wiring harness. The new parking camera would also be in the OSRVM.Even this i believe is wrong. I don't believe they will move the side looking cameras from its current location even though they would need to.
What I think would rather happen is that they yet again follow Mobileye's invention by moving the camera to the location that Mobileye uses for side looking cameras (A pillar/side mirror depending on OEM preferences).
If they were to move it, it most definitely would be to the side mirror. But i don't see them even moving it at this point. It would basically mean a collosial failure (which ofcourse i believe it is)
Here's a comparison between Tesla's position versus one of Mobileye's position (A pillar) that NIO copied and uses.
The other position is the side mirror position that Mobileye uses on the Zeekr models.
Note putting it where the repeater cameras are or on the side of the front bumpers could then lead to a different blind spot (because its not high enough).
The only hope Tesla has is to copy Mobileye yet again in using one of their two side camera positions. Unless they put it high/in the head lights area.
This would eliminate parts (repeater and harness) and simplify the wiring harness, both goals Tesla has for cost and manufacturability.
GSP
I wouldn't consider their new radar "HD".
Quick comparison:
Huawei's 4D imaging radar with 288 virtual channels.
Mobileye’s Ultra Resolution 4D Imaging Radars with 2,304 virtual channels and ~500k points per second. (0.5 angular res, 2 vertical res).
Arbe radar 2,304 virtual channels (1 angular res, 1.7 vertical res).
Fisker Ocean uses Uhnder's radar with 192 virtual channels.
Tesla's New Radar has 48 virtual channels.
DarkForest
10.69 made me a shill
I was thinking about this some more, and yeah, you’re right.
Reverse to drive without stopping always works for me (like when I leave my house, reversing out of my garage and then going on the road), but drive to reverse sometimes requires a complete stop (like when I back into a parking space).
I believe I’ve only ever had to come to a complete stop when I’ve used the Beta on the drive, and I think it specifically happens when I’ve had to take over from FSD. If I just cancel FSD, then it continues to let me go from drive to reverse smoothly. I need to try it some more to be sure.
For me it's usually when I'm making maneuvers in an empty part of a parking lot. I paid attention to this earlier today and also noted that I didn't need to use the brake pedal to go from forward to reverse at low speeds in a more-crowded parking lot. It's probably a similar type of subtle bug to the one that randomly prevents turn signals from engaging, no matter whether you pull the stalk halfway or fully. I still don't know what the logic is since it tends to happen at random, and usually when I need blinkers the most lol
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
No, I'm talking about the eight camera layout, discussed here:
Rumor: HW4 will have 13 cameras
You were suggesting that Tesla copied it from this 2016 Mobileye presentation:
I found Tesla was already testing the 8 camera layout (plus bumper cameras) back in mid 2015 from spy shots:
https://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2015/07/tesla-model-x-caught-testing-new-sensors-on-video.html
This made me distrust any "facts" you have posted on Mobileye about them being the first for anything.
As for the trifocal patent, Tesla ended up using something different in its production vehicles, even if they were testing that particular one in some prototypes (given they were former Mobileye customers). In previous discussions, I already said it was obvious the windshield camera had Mobileye influence given Tesla used them in AP1, so I'm not disputing that part.
Rumor: HW4 will have 13 cameras
I don't trust your research, because I had easily disproven previous similar claims and you didn't respond with further proof, and I did another cursory search that seemed to disprove it again. I'm not about to waste my time again unless you at least address some of your previous claims (like the 8 camera layout for example).
Yes, D to R seems to be if FSD Beta was last used. Seems that the first time you try D to R after disengaging Beta you must press the brake. After that as long as you don't engage Beta again you can D to R at the 5MPH stated.
No they did not end up using something "different" in its production vehicles.
I know for die-hard Tesla fans, its impossible to attribute words like "copy" to Tesla because they feel like it would have a negative view towards Tesla and will not be seen as glorifying Tesla.
But you are dead wrong and will continue to be dead wrong no matter how much you try to gymnastic your way out of it.
(Main Camera | Wide Fish-eye Camera | Narrow Camera)
It wasn't just an "influence", it was COPY. They used one of the design module that Mobileye patented. The image is IN the patent.
Its an exact copy. The dark foam is simply covering most of the camera.
As proven above, people who has immense love for Tesla will never allow themselves to have a logical/reason based discussion. They will never admit clear facts, so continuing this discussion would be useless.
For anyone else who is reading this, If you do any reading on EyeQ4 development, you would know it was designed with three versions in mind.
- EyeQ4 Low - for 1 camera configuration
- EyeQ4 Mid - for trifocal (3) cameras configuration
- EyeQ4 High - for 8 cameras configuration
EyeQ4 began development Late 2023/Early 2024
"Using the right core for the right task saves both computational time and energy. This is critical, Mobileye says, as the EyeQ4 is required to provide “super-computer” capabilities of more than 2.5 teraflops within a low-power (approximately 3W) automotive grade system-on-chip.
The enhanced computational capabilities give EyeQ4-based ADAS the ability to use advanced computer vision algorithms like Deep Layered Networks and Graphical Models while processing information from 8 cameras simultaneously at 36 frames per second.
The design was done according to the ISO-26262 standard and will provide a safety level of ASIL-B(D). The EyeQ4 will accept multiple camera inputs from a trifocal front-sensing camera configuration, surround-view-systems of four wide field of view cameras, a long range rear-facing camera and information from multiple radars and scanning beam lasers scanners. Taken together, the EyeQ4 will be processing a safety cocoon around the vehicle—essential for autonomous driving.
In addition to the EyeQ4 high capability version, at an ASP of approximately three times that of an ADAS functionality chip, Mobileye also plans the launch of the EyeQ4 “medium” variant within the same timeframe. The EyeQ4M will include a subset of EyeQ4’s computational cores, enabling a select group of functions. In producing a family of EyeQ4 processors Mobileye will ensure that car makers can deliver a scalable hardware solution with full code and pin compatibility, thereby reducing complete validation costs and ensuring that multiple feature bundles can be offered to the end customer at the best possible price."
March 2015 ArticleMobileye unveils Gen4 system-on-chip EyeQ4; visual processing for ADAS and automated driving; design win for 2018
Mobileye N.V., a designer and developer of camera-based Advanced Driver Assistance Systems (ADAS) for the automotive industry, introduced its 4th-generation system-on-chip, the EyeQ4. Leveraging the company’s more than 15 years of expertise in designing computer-vision specific cores, the EyeQ4...
www.greencarcongress.com
Last edited:
But Tesla already has front fender cameras!
So maybe these are forward fender or forward facing cameras?
Similar threads
