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After reading this, is everyone now ready to admit that none of the cars currently on the road are going to be capable of FSD?
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Tesla themselves (well, Elon) told us a while ago none of the cars currently on the road are getting HW4 upgrades.
He claims that won't preclude them from being capable of FSD though- so grain of salt and all but the lack of retrofit capability is NOT new info.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
3 bumper cameras, Full Birds Eye view finally happening.
Ugh, if there is no retrofit path then this is going to quickly spiral into a giant lawsuit mess on the contention that the additional sensors are proof prima facie that Tesla can't achieve FSD with the existing sensor suite. I was really hoping that they were going to have an upgrade path that would result in the HW3 people with FSD not being completely defrauded. 
Continuing to sell FSD with the pre-existing promises while this is right around the corner is quickly looking like absurdly disgusting behavior!
Continuing to sell FSD with the pre-existing promises while this is right around the corner is quickly looking like absurdly disgusting behavior!
Maybe not for Pepsi.I love the comment from Green - welcome to "legacy" ownership Plaid owners
Really should be expanded to "Welcome to legacy ownership for any current Tesla owner"
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
I expect we will get to test if the March 2019 change of FSD product description during sale (after which nobody was ever promised more than L2 during the sale) will hold up in court.
On the bright side for Tesla- if it does, the # of pre-3/19 buyers they owe refunds to is:
Quite small
and
The refund would only be about 3k plus interest since that's all FSD cost back then
On the bright side for Tesla- if it does, the # of pre-3/19 buyers they owe refunds to is:
Quite small
and
The refund would only be about 3k plus interest since that's all FSD cost back then
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
Ugh, if there is no retrofit path then this is going to quickly spiral into a giant lawsuit mess on the contention that the additional sensors are proof prima facie that Tesla can't achieve FSD with the existing sensor suite. I was really hoping that they were going to have an upgrade path that would result in the HW3 people with FSD not being completely defrauded.
Continuing to sell FSD with the pre-existing promises while this is right around the corner is quickly looking like absurdly disgusting behavior!
It was dependent on achieving and it wasn’t achieved.
This would make sense for the parking sensor function using tesla vision instead of sonar.
Yeah, we really need to get a definition of of what FSD will be for both HW3 and later, because I bet they won’t be the same. HW3 will probably “work”, but will have many limitations, like not working in poor weather, slow intersections (due to creeping), and whatever other limitations you can think of. And will that be acceptable?
This would explain those Model 3 prototypes with the front and rear fully covered, even though they look like fairly normal 3s otherwise. Seems like only B pillar cams remain mostly intact.
EDIT: nvm, maybe no more B pillar cams?
We were told the car could drive itself with the hardware we have so they better own up to it.
I wouldn't jump to conclusions and would encourage people not to as well. This is interesting, and I'm sure we'll learn more come March 1st. It's unlikely (even impossible) they don't have satisfactory answers to these questions.
Here's the list of 11 cameras with my guesses of what they are and ordered from front to rear:
- F-SVC (bumper front)
- L-FF-Side (front fender facing left side)
- R-FF-Side (front fender facing right side)
- L-FF-Rear (front fender facing rear left)
- R-FF-Rear (front fender facing rear right)
- Wide (fisheye)
- Main (front / high enough resolution to not need Far)
- Selfie (interior)
- L-SVC (bumper left / reverse cross traffic)
- R-SVC (bumper right / reverse cross traffic)
- Backup (reverse)
powertoold
Active Member
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Elon Musk said:
Not sure this requires any conclusion jumping. No retrofits for existing fleet.
Green alludes to additional redundancies as well, the type of redundancies you'd need to actually achieve something Level 3+ where you need backup everything in case one component fails -- none of that is necessary for Level 2 where the human is the backup.
Reminds me of news breaking a while ago about Tesla foregoing redundant steering control modules for vehicles coming out of Shanghai
Reminds me of news breaking a while ago about Tesla foregoing redundant steering control modules for vehicles coming out of Shanghai
It was dependent on FSD (the software) achieving it. So if they achieve it with HW4, but not HW3, they'll prove HW4 is all that's needed with their latest FSD software, validating the claims of all class actions demanding retrofit or upgrades.
Yep.
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