I feed bad for all those 90D owners

[tccartier]

Hate all you want... If I could sell my Model S without losing $30k with 9 months of ownership I would. The depreciation on these vehicles is worse than any car I have ever owned. When the Model 3's are readily available the Model S will plummet even further and faster.

That's why I bought a used one, It is "new to me" I get the tech, The first owner took the $50+K depreciation hit, and at least "for now" the CPO prices are being supported by the next wave of adopters (like myself) who are finding value at current CPO price points slowing the hockey stick depreciation curve.

A new car has NEVER been a good investment. They are "at the end of the day" a transportation tool.

 

[malcolm]

How is this innovation?

Here you go...

I chose the 90D because I wanted the better 0-60 times... Now they give enable the 75D to have similar performance for $20k less..

 

[kort677]

I gather you did not read my posts. I am advocating that they shop giving *sugar* away for free that previous customers had to pay for. Progress is not continuing to give more stuff away to keep enticing new customers while screwing old customers that paid for stuff. Just like customers that paid $7500 to unlock their 75kw batteries and then they dropped it to $2500 for others. This is not innovation.

I read your posts and they display a lack of understanding of the the way things are, as newer innovations get less expensive because of economies made by more production or are less than cutting edge their costs become reduced and are less costly to produce and then can be used as your "sugar". the 50 inch tv that cost me $5k when I was first on my block to own on can now be had for less than 1/5 the price and has better components built into it. give it a rest. the improvements and innovations will hopefully continue at a very rapid pace and as the other big manufacturers enter into the space it will spur even more rapid innovations and lower costs.

 

[S4ndy]

In less than one year of ownership (9 months) and less than $8k miles my $113k 90D Model S seems like a terrible purchase and would be worth a fraction of what it cost. Today you can get a 75D brand new (Shipping with 85k Batteries installed) for $20k less fully loaded and fully charge it and get the same daily mileage.

I dont like the way Tesla keeps adding value to existing models to entice new users while continuing to devalue their existing customers. There is no good time to purchase a Model S or Model X because the minute you get it something you paid for will be given away for free to the next buyer.

Whether is a higher speed charger or full glass roof it seems the longer you wait to make a purchase the better it is. Heck I bought the 90D and right after picking it up the 100D came out and 3 months later the 90D was discontinued. Its crazy how they make so many changes and your brand new car can be discontinued a few months after you get it.

I pick up my new 75S on Tuesday. Discontinued tomorrow!!

 

[BestRadar]

That's why I bought a used one, It is "new to me" I get the tech, The first owner took the $50+K depreciation hit, and at least "for now" the CPO prices are being supported by the next wave of adopters (like myself) who are finding value at current CPO price points slowing the hockey stick depreciation curve.

A new car has NEVER been a good investment. They are "at the end of the day" a transportation tool.

Yeah, I get that and I do agree. What makes me upset is the way Tesla does things, Lets forget about depreciation for a second.

My 90D with every option except the rear seats was $113k (Only 9 months ago)
Today you can buy a 75D with every option except the rear seats for $92k

Specifications, Acceleration, Etc. are all the same except a 30 mile range difference for $21k that is just crazy.

I read your posts and they display a lack of understanding of the the way things are, as newer innovations get less expensive because of economies made by more production or are less than cutting edge their costs become reduced and are less costly to produce and then can be used as your "sugar". the 50 inch tv that cost me $5k when I was first on my block to own on can now be had for less than 1/5 the price and has better components built into it. give it a rest. the improvements and innovations will hopefully continue at a very rapid pace and as the other big manufacturers enter into the space it will spur even more rapid innovations and lower costs.

Sure.. I remember when a Plasma TV was $5000 and you can get an OLED for $1000 today but it did not happen in 9 months. It took many years for the shift to change. Tesla's price dropping seems to be happening too rapidly and every Quarter they find something that someone paid for to now include in a lower price.

 

[bhzmark]

retailers adjust their prices. whether by price tag or by product changes. sometimes they lower prices.

that's life.

the volt and leaf cost less now too. and are better cars.

human genome sequencing used to cost $100,000; now it costs $100.

that's progress.

I gather you did not read my posts. I am advocating that they shop giving *sugar* away for free that previous customers had to pay for. Progress is not continuing to give more stuff away to keep enticing new customers while screwing old customers that paid for stuff. Just like customers that paid $7500 to unlock their 75kw batteries and then they dropped it to $2500 for others. This is not innovation.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Here you go...

I don't consider upping low-end models power via software as innovation. There have already been faster Teslas and it is know older models could be updated too, Tesla just chooses not to. It is part of these sales optimization games Tesla plays, merely.

That said, I do expect real innovation in the form of 2170 batteries and other things rolling over from the Model 3 development in the upcoming quarters. But most of 2017 has not been about innovation, but about trying to keep Model S/X selling and optimizing logicsts through constant dabbling with the product's soft parameters.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I read your posts and they display a lack of understanding of the the way things are, as newer innovations get less expensive because of economies made by more production or are less than cutting edge their costs become reduced and are less costly to produce and then can be used as your "sugar".

What are these "newer innovations", though? Bundling adaptive lights from 1,5 years ago or air suspension from, what, 2012/2013 as standard is hardly constant innovation...

 

[ucmndd]

I gather you did not read my posts. I am advocating that they shop giving *sugar* away for free that previous customers had to pay for. Progress is not continuing to give more stuff away to keep enticing new customers while screwing old customers that paid for stuff. Just like customers that paid $7500 to unlock their 75kw batteries and then they dropped it to $2500 for others. This is not innovation.

The cost of emerging technology decreases over time. Charging new customers what the current market will bear is not "screwing" old customers, no matter how screwed you may feel.

 

[number12]

I pick up my new 75S on Tuesday. Discontinued tomorrow!!

I think that is one move that helps you. You will have the newest rwd tesla 75 made.

They discontinued x60D shortly after I received mine... and straight resale value I think that helped me. (Along with lowering price to upgrade).

 

[AnxietyRanger]

The cost of emerging technology decreases over time. Charging new customers what the current market will bear is not "screwing" old customers, no matter how screwed you may feel.

If only Tesla was consistent, though. Prices went up all early 2017 (my P100D was much cheaper in Q1 than it would have been in Q2), then the prices and bundlings started going the other way...

It is a roller-coaster, because it is not likely based on any mathematical formula or natural progression, but constant quarterly optimization for sales and logistics at Tesla. That is what they are actually doing when they are changing things all the time - optimizing sales and costs.

It is the sheer manic pace at which Tesla changes things that is offputting to some. I understand. I feel reluctant in jumping along because it seems one is bound to get it wrong...

 

[gene]

My 2013 Model S I paid $92,000 now, with 80,000 miles on it is maybe worth $35,000 to $40,000. I actually enjoy it now even more since its value dropped so far. Less need to worry about little nicks, feel better to treat it as a daily driver.

 

[Chopr147]

I'm coming at this innovation with a different perspective. I have a Model S 60D and love it. After purchasing and with the help of TMC members I realized I can charge to 100% every day w/o degrading the battery. Other than a few times in winter 60D is plenty for me. Since discontinued but I feel lucky to have gotten it when I did. 1 month before more cameras were added. No problem I understood Tesla keeps innovating.

 

[ucmndd]

That is what they are actually doing when they are changing things all the time - optimizing sales and costs.

I'd argue that's exactly what high performing companies should be doing basically all the time.

I concede Tesla is particularly beholden to the quarterly sales numbers and a lot of their config/price changes are an effort to repeatedly pull on various demand levers to spur sales.

My car drives exactly the way it did 9 months ago (well, plus a new rattle or two here and there). At the time, I felt what I paid was worth what I received in return. I know that everyone else who bought when I did paid the same price. Subsequent upgrades haven't changed that.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I concede Tesla is particularly beholden to the quarterly sales numbers and a lot of their config/price changes are an effort to repeatedly pull on various demand levers to spur sales.

^ All I'm saying, really.

Some are fine with it, many don't care, others feel it creates an unwelcoming purchasing environment for a buyer.

 

[kort677]

^ All I'm saying, really.

Some are fine with it, many don't care, others feel it creates an unwelcoming purchasing environment for a buyer.

same concept about buying a tesla, a computer, a cell phone a tv

 

[mspohr]

If only Tesla was consistent, though. Prices went up all early 2017 (my P100D was much cheaper in Q1 than it would have been in Q2), then the prices and bundlings started going the other way...

It is a roller-coaster, because it is not likely based on any mathematical formula or natural progression, but constant quarterly optimization for sales and logistics at Tesla. That is what they are actually doing when they are changing things all the time - optimizing sales and costs.

It is the sheer manic pace at which Tesla changes things that is offputting to some. I understand. I feel reluctant in jumping along because it seems one is bound to get it wrong...

This is known as "the free market".
If you can't deal with it, just don't buy.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

same concept about buying a tesla, a computer, a cell phone a tv

IMO a Tesla buying opportunity is much harder to pinpoint than the time to purchase a computer or a phone, let alone something as slowly progressing as a TV.

Making a MacRumors like Buyer's Guide for Tesla is pretty much impossible. Yet it is very possible for Apple products - iPhone, iPad, Mac Buyer's Guide: Know When to Buy - for example.

I've bought a lot of high-end stuff in my time and Tesla is by far the most stressful type of item that I've ever purchased, from a planning standpoint. Most products have lifespans (as the current product) of maybe 12-18 months (and 6-9 for sure), Tesla's have a lifespan of a few weeks, if that...

If you don't care when you buy, relatively speaking, then fine. But if you do want to seek a good buying moment, with Tesla that moment is pretty much never.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

This is known as "the free market".
If you can't deal with it, just don't buy.

Of course. I find it more likely that my next car will not be a Tesla. This is one reason.

 

[skitown]

I don’t feel bad. Tesla’s mission is to accelerate the advent of sustainable energy and transport. As battery prices and other inputs continue to rapidly fall, it’s obvious (inevitable?) that Tesla will use that increasing gross margin to make their new cars contain even more value as quickly as possible. This is what I signed up for when I bought my 85D and my S85 before that. Frankly, given their mission and the economics of the above, I’m thrilled with how well these cars have held their value relative to their gas-competition. But at the end of the day, I bought these vehicles to be enjoyed and driven, not as a financial vehicle. No pun intended.