TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC
  1. TMC is currently READ ONLY.
    Click here for more info.

If you fast charge, Tesla will permanently throttle charging

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by Naonak, May 4, 2017.

  1. bro1999

    bro1999 Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2016
    Messages:
    1,929
    Location:
    Maryland
    Supercharging not what it used to be I guess. Nice that Tesla is so up front with their customers. :rolleyes:
     
    • Funny x 4
    • Like x 3
    • Disagree x 2
  2. SageBrush

    SageBrush REJECT Fascism

    Joined:
    May 7, 2015
    Messages:
    12,062
    Location:
    New Mexico
    Or knowingly
     
  3. TonyWilliams

    TonyWilliams Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2012
    Messages:
    1,438
    Location:
    San Diego - Tesla powered Rav4 EV
    Since the OP told us that 99% of his charging was NOT on a Supercharger, your comment doesn't seem to apply.

    I'm not sure what to make of the issue, however. One guy is wound up, yet nobody else has even reported a problem.

    I'm at 65,000 miles, and my car will still do 115kW below 17% SOC. Others have far more miles,

    I guess I'm not convinced there's a problem... yet.
     
    • Like x 3
  4. Az_Rael

    Az_Rael Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2016
    Messages:
    5,602
    Location:
    Palmdale, CA
    I wonder what batteries this affects. Only the newer ones? I think I have a "B" pack in my 85, so I don't know what the max rate of that one was (I know the "A" packs were limited).

    Communication seems to be Tesla's Achilles heel.
     
    • Like x 1
  5. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2016
    Messages:
    14,925
    Location:
    Oregon
    @JonMc Can we get an official confirmation/denial on this issue?

    Also, if it is real, should 50kW CHAdeMO charging really increment the fast charging counter? Since it is less than 50% of what a Supercharger would supply. (Maybe the counter criteria need to be adjusted.)
     
    • Like x 6
  6. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2011
    Messages:
    17,515
    Sadly we've been here before.
     
    • Like x 1
  7. Bighorn

    Bighorn Top Supercharger

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Messages:
    2,708
    Location:
    Big Horn, Wyoming
    Does CHAdeMO have a different tapering profile? Is it 400VAC?
     
  8. AEdennis

    AEdennis Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2013
    Messages:
    2,711
    For that matter, how about those underpowered CHAdeMO stations at 25kW (I'm looking at the legacy Vermont CHAdeMO locations....)
     
  9. Az_Rael

    Az_Rael Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2016
    Messages:
    5,602
    Location:
    Palmdale, CA
    Or the time I got 35kW max at a supercharger. Should those count too?
     
    • Funny x 2
  10. DrivingRockies

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2016
    Messages:
    529
    Location:
    US
    I emailed the NA Service general email box. I'll share their response for those interested.
     
    • Like x 4
    • Helpful x 1
  11. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2016
    Messages:
    14,925
    Location:
    Oregon
    @Naonak Nope. If you read the details on the battery warranty it doesn't cover degradation at all. So if Tesla is doing this at all, and they are doing it to prevent degradation, not failure, they are doing it to make sure you keep your battery capacity as long as possible. (So it is good for you and worse for them since you would be at Superchargers longer.)

    And in reality how much charging did you get between 120kW and 90kW before? (How quickly did it taper down to 90kW?) How much longer per charge does it take you now? (Not even a second longer where you do most of your charging at CHAdeMO chargers.)
     
    • Informative x 3
    • Like x 2
    • Helpful x 1
  12. Electric1

    Electric1 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2012
    Messages:
    221
    Location:
    NJ/Lehigh Valley PA
    I would therefore like to see an option early in the life of my car that would allow me to supercharge more slowly and save my fast chargers for what I really need them at a later date. Seems like an easy software switch.

    That said, TM really owes it to us to disclose how they are modifying our cars after we bought them to do something other than we expect.

    I'm really feel as though they think we are buy a license to use the car rather than the car
     
    • Like x 11
    • Love x 2
  13. Ulmo

    Ulmo Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Messages:
    4,324
    Location:
    Vienna Woods, Aptos, California
    You got a response? What is it?

    I'll add to the throngs of people saying we have some type of higher use than OP and have not seen the problem. Since I have a 60 limited 75 battery, I can never charge to 100%; the OP didn't even state if he ever charges to 100%.
     
  14. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2016
    Messages:
    14,925
    Location:
    Oregon
    And maybe there should be a "I don't give a rat's ass; I want to charge as fast as possible degradation be damned." option.

    I wonder which would use more of your time:
    • Tesla throttling you to 90kW but keeping your battery capacity higher.
    • Tesla letting you charge as fast as possible, but you lose capacity so that you have to recharge more often to go the same distance.
     
    • Like x 1
  15. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    9,830
    #75 stopcrazypp, May 4, 2017
    Last edited: May 4, 2017
    This is pretty relevant. It seems there is plenty of evidence that older cars are not affected, but it could have something to do with the 90kWh pack specifically.

    I should note, naturally a battery will charge slower as it ages since the internal resistance goes up, which reduces charging efficiency and also heats up the battery faster (so it hits thermal limits quicker). I imagine the BMS has mechanisms to reduce the charge rate to account for this.

    However, a system that uses counters is a different matter. That's a bit more arbitrary and would tend to be conservative. On the one hand, it kind of "helps" the user by reducing the impact on the battery, but then it is also limiting the speed, which affects utility. I do agree this should be disclosed beforehand so that user has a chance to avoid hitting such a counter.
     
    • Like x 2
  16. DrivingRockies

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2016
    Messages:
    529
    Location:
    US
    Not yet. I sent the e-mail at the same time I posted. I wouldn't expect a response before tomorrow.
     
  17. cantdecide

    cantdecide Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2012
    Messages:
    378
    Location:
    Boulder, CO
    My suspicion is that the counter only started with a software change not that long ago (maybe a year) which means that most high milage drivers have most of their early driving not count.
    You, however, seem to have a newer car also so perhaps that theory is off.
    I don't think many people dc charge more than once per day and not many of them would notice a slightly slower charging rate.
     
  18. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Messages:
    17,876
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    It probably counts any DC charge, even if 25 kW, against the tally. That would be easiest from the software perspective. But it might only matter if the charge was over 90 kW, or some other range of parameters. Seems to me there might be room for refinement here.
     
    • Like x 4
    • Helpful x 2
  19. patrick40363

    patrick40363 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2014
    Messages:
    1,152
    Location:
    Cali
    And how does it impact you?
     
    • Funny x 2
  20. dhanson865

    dhanson865 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2013
    Messages:
    4,331
    Location:
    Knoxville, Tennessee
    The old limits were

    Some can charge at 90 KW (85 KWh A battery pack, near 1.06C charge rate)
    some can charge at 105 KW (60 KWh with older battery pack, 1.75C charge rate)
    some can charge at 111 KW (60 KWh with newer battery pack, 1.85C charge rate)
    some can charge at 120 KW (85 KWh B or D battery pack, near 1.41C charge rate)

    I can't imagine they'd have to lower it down to 0.8 C rate.

    Newer cars (90 kWh and 100 kWh) don't hit any higher peak rate so the C rate relative to capacity is lower. Assuming 120 KW max its

    some can charge at 120 KW (90 KWh pack, 1.33C charge rate)
    some can charge at 120 KW (100 KWh pack, 1.2C charge rate)

    which is already toning it down nicely. Maybe they pushed it too far with the old 60 kWh pack. Maybe 1.5C is the line they should have crossed?
     
    • Informative x 6

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.
  • Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


    SUPPORT TMC