If you fast charge, Tesla will permanently throttle charging

[X Fan]

Have you rooted and checked the real figures? Those who have claim that 90 kWh is masking the reality through software.

It took these guys to also find out what Tesla had been doing with 90 kWh performance throttling, 90 kWh DC charging limitations etc...

I'm not saying it isn't possible yours is doing better. Just that rated is unfortunately not allegedly the way to check it.

TeslaFi validates?

Btw: I’ve supercharged over 100x and fully charged 48x.

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

If thats how it was supposed to work with superchargers, I'm all game! But I don't think anyone has ever reported getting 80% in 30 mins.
In fact, just went to a charger with 2km battery left (i.e. 0%) on arrival at 9:08pm. At 9:46pm, I unplugged and it was at 245km, meaning 243km recharge in 38 mins.

Translated for you guys in the States, thats 150 miles in 38 mins. Or about 118 miles in 30 mins (far from 170 miles advertised!)

don't forget they were using 'ideal miles' when these numbers were being stated and it is completely true that you can get 170 ideal miles in 30 min.

the 100kW hr battery loaner I had kept at 114kW until >50% charge
which is much faster charging than 85kWhr batteries do, especially once they are aged a bit and cold

..and sorry but this has nothing to do with this thread either..just pointing out a few things regarding some recentish posts

 

[Naonak]

Hmmm, it is an interesting thread. To me, the OP has too much vagueness of information in the post and is over the top in critique... ie "remove critical functionality.": Reduced charging over time is not what I would call critical functionality. Maybe that is because I understand battery chemistry and electronics of why and how it is being done. I understand that owners would love to have a car that continues to charge at the highest possible rates, but that just isn't possible at this time, regardless of how "throttling" as you call it, is done.

Even before researching and buying a Tesla, I knew from engineering experience that over time, the top end mileage and charging rate would vary and decrease under lots of conditions, so I guess that is why I am not disappointed in what I hear on this thread. Frankly, for me, the Supercharging is far faster than I need it to be on my trips, but for folks whom are on the road constantly, I guess it is a disappointment to see degradation over time. The Tesla is not really doing anything much differently than what your laptop or smartphone charging is doing or the battery recharger that is probably in the garage of many people. The best smart chargers will do similar things.

You... really didn't even read anything in this thread, did you? Just figured you'd skim over it, give it a disagree and throw your 2c in, right?

I suggest you actually read the thread before you comment on it. Your post makes absolutely zero sense and is completely at odds with everything known about this issue. You may understand battery chemistry, but you understand nothing about this issue, sadly.

 

[tga]

I must have lucked out with my 90.

Rated at 257 and still charging full to 252 after 20 months and 40k Miles.

TeslaFi validates?

Btw: I’ve supercharged over 100x and fully charged 48x.

This thread is about a(n artificial) cap on max charge rate. That's a different type of degradation than total kWh capacity degradation. You'd need to see what your current peak charge rate is to see if you're impacted. You could be able to charge to 252 out of 257 miles, but not be able to peak over 90kW at a supercharger (down from 120kW).

 

[apacheguy]

don't forget they were using 'ideal miles' when these numbers were being stated and it is completely true that you can get 170 ideal miles in 30 min.

the 100kW hr battery loaner I had kept at 114kW until >50% charge
which is much faster charging than 85kWhr batteries do, especially once they are aged a bit and cold

..and sorry but this has nothing to do with this thread either..just pointing out a few things regarding some recentish posts

Wow, they put a 100 kWh as a loaner pack in your P85?

 

[ABC2D]

To me, the OP has too much vagueness of information

To me, in turn, you did not read any of the posts in this thread but came in just to "share" your "understanding battery chemistry and electronics of why and how it is being done" along "engineering experience that over time, the top end mileage and charging rate would vary and decrease under lots of conditions"

You totally missed all the points of this 87 page thread (there were many made), read it, then your reply might be more relevant and less self-serving.

 

[JRP3]

Somewhat related, an example of another company changing the behavior of a product after a sale because of battery related issues:
Here's why Apple says it's slowing down older iPhones

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

Wow, they put a 100 kWh as a loaner pack in your P85?

sorry should be more concise. the '100kWhr battery loaner' was in a Model X P100D...not my P85.
& my p85 battery is not limited under normal conditions and has essentially the same charge curve as it did long ago
this thread is still specific to 90kWhr batteries though, right? or just no one else has had enough DC charges on others?

 

[X Fan]

M B
Lr

This thread is about a(n artificial) cap on max charge rate. That's a different type of degradation than total kWh capacity degradation. You'd need to see what your current peak charge rate is to see if you're impacted. You could be able to charge to 252 out of 257 miles, but not be able to peak over 90kW at a supercharger (down from 120kW).

Yup, I know.

I just charged in Plantation this week and peak was 110kw with usual ramp down. Same/ideal charging speed at Sarasota earlier in month. My only issues have been due to SC faulty units.

 

[FlyF4]

To me, in turn, you did not read any of the posts in this thread but came in just to "share" your "understanding battery chemistry and electronics of why and how it is being done" along "engineering experience that over time, the top end mileage and charging rate would vary and decrease under lots of conditions"

You totally missed all the points of this 87 page thread (there were many made), read it, then your reply might be more relevant and less self-serving.

nope. read them all. You are making wrong assumptions about what people do without knowing who they are or anything about their experience. Not sure how this is self-serving. Guess I will have to ignore your future posts. I guess your opinion is the only one that matters on here and no one elses have any value.

 

[FlyF4]

@FlyF4 - you are correct that as batteries degrade their internal resistance increases and this can lead to slow charge rates and acceleration.

However, that differs from what is described here. Here, Tesla has implemented a “cap” in the code that forcibly throttles charge rates after a certain amount of usage. All without disclosing this to the owner upfront. Disingenuous at the least, IMO.

Yea, I understand that and agree about the not disclosing info. I guess it just comes down to the fact that I didn't need it to be disclosed to me in advance. I understand these things would happen. ;-)

 

[Duke-U]

In case anyone missed it, this is from another tread about A Better Routeplanner (highly recommended btw) where the developer reads the supercharger rate while stopping to charge.

The BTX4 is the 90kW battery, and mine follows that line closely at every charge.

 

[X Fan]

Hey you said it yourself, Internet speeds are a good comparison...

Well, IDK about the US, but in Canada with Rogers, I almost always get more than I pay for, and on some occasions, its slightly less than what I'm paying for.

If thats how it was supposed to work with superchargers, I'm all game! But I don't think anyone has ever reported getting 80% in 30 mins.

In fact, just went to a charger with 2km battery left (i.e. 0%) on arrival at 9:08pm. At 9:46pm, I unplugged and it was at 245km, meaning 243km recharge in 38 mins.

Translated for you guys in the States, thats 150 miles in 38 mins. Or about 118 miles in 30 mins (far from 170 miles advertised!)

Of course, since you arrived close to zero the charge rate would be slower

 

[wallstguy]

Of course, since you arrived close to zero the charge rate would be slower

Tesla clearly states 0-80% in 30 mins. So whether its slow or not should be factored in, because above 80% it will get slower as well.

 

[TexasEV]

Tesla clearly states 0-80% in 30 mins. So whether its slow or not should be factored in, because above 80% it will get slower as well.

Where does Tesla clearly state that? I’ve never seen it and I’ve owned a Model S since 2013. The claim has always been up to 80% in 40 minutes.

 

[Naonak]

nope. read them all. You are making wrong assumptions about what people do without knowing who they are or anything about their experience. Not sure how this is self-serving. Guess I will have to ignore your future posts. I guess your opinion is the only one that matters on here and no one elses have any value.

So if you read every post in here, what, exactly, do you find "vague?"

 

[wallstguy]

Where does Tesla clearly state that? I’ve never seen it and I’ve owned a Model S since 2013. The claim has always been up to 80% in 40 minutes.

Supercharger | Tesla Canada

Superchargers deliver energy rapidly, and gradually slow down as the battery fills. Your vehicle automatically alerts you when it has enough energy to continue the trip and with the extensive network of Superchargers along popular routes, charging above 80% isn’t typically necessary.

It has that in text, then shows the battery getting an 80% charge in 30 mins.

 

[supratachophobia]

Where does Tesla clearly state that? I’ve never seen it and I’ve owned a Model S since 2013. The claim has always been up to 80% in 40 minutes.

50% in 20, 80% in 40, full charge in "about" an hour. That's always been the tag if actual numbers were ever used.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Hmmm, it is an interesting thread. To me, the OP has too much vagueness of information in the post and is over the top in critique... ie "remove critical functionality.": Reduced charging over time is not what I would call critical functionality. Maybe that is because I understand battery chemistry and electronics of why and how it is being done. I understand that owners would love to have a car that continues to charge at the highest possible rates, but that just isn't possible at this time, regardless of how "throttling" as you call it, is done.

Even before researching and buying a Tesla, I knew from engineering experience that over time, the top end mileage and charging rate would vary and decrease under lots of conditions, so I guess that is why I am not disappointed in what I hear on this thread. Frankly, for me, the Supercharging is far faster than I need it to be on my trips, but for folks whom are on the road constantly, I guess it is a disappointment to see degradation over time. The Tesla is not really doing anything much differently than what your laptop or smartphone charging is doing or the battery recharger that is probably in the garage of many people. The best smart chargers will do similar things.

So you have to be an engineer or have engineering experience to understand how this car functions over the long term? If I have to be the one to say it, so be it: No Tesla customer, ever, agreed to have their range, performance, and charging capability reduced over time. Can someone please point me to an agreement or disclosure, in writing, where Tesla had any customer anywhere acknowledge that this will be the case?

It is not an automatic given that someone buying an EV will have any knowledge that range will drop over time and that the battery's charging capabilities and vehicle performance would change (suffer) as a result. I shouldn't have to understand battery chemistry or be a member of the Tesla Excuses Club.

 

[supratachophobia]

So you have to be an engineer or have engineering experience to understand how this car functions over the long term? If I have to be the one to say it, so be it: No Tesla customer, ever, agreed to have their range, performance, and charging capability reduced over time. Can someone please point me to an agreement or disclosure, in writing, where Tesla had any customer anywhere acknowledge that this will be the case?

It is not an automatic given that someone buying an EV will have any knowledge that range will drop over time and that the battery's charging capabilities and vehicle performance would change (suffer) as a result. I shouldn't have to understand battery chemistry or be a member of the Tesla Excuses Club.

Tesla Excuses Club, that's a great one. I'm totally using that.