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If you fast charge, Tesla will permanently throttle charging

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slightly off topic but ...

wonder if Porsche are going to be able to truly offer unlimited 350KW charging with no limits.
Given that I seriously doubt they have some radical battery chemistry that Tesla havent come up with I am just waiting for their 350KW claim to disintegrate. Either the claim or the battery anyways.
The battery won't desinterate... It'll just explode.
 
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The battery won't desinterate... It'll just explode.

frag - i think was the word Elon used

But if VAG Porsche are making these claims surely they have to come good on them given their credibility is shot to bits after dieselgate.

I am just fascinated to know how they have achieved it, or whether they will just weasel their way out by saying it can only be done on rare occasions and will reduce the battery life, and in reality it is just a meaningless gimmick.
 
I have a 2016 75D with 35kmi+ miles. I would say 90% of my miles are from supercharging. I still get up to 96kW charge rate. It is of course lower when the battery is cold, but this is the same behavior as it was when new. At 90% charge, I have always gotten 212 rated miles indicated. I think the only throttling that happens is when your battery is degraded, from whatever cause.
 
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slightly off topic but ...

wonder if Porsche are going to be able to truly offer unlimited 350KW charging with no limits.
Given that I seriously doubt they have some radical battery chemistry that Tesla havent come up with I am just waiting for their 350KW claim to disintegrate. Either the claim or the battery anyways.
Porsche may not hold themselves to using the ultimately low cost cells on the market, as Tesla proudly claims to have.
From the ultimately low cost cells you cannot expect the lowest internal resistance and thus heat build-up.
Not that the Hyundai Ioniq happily charges at 2.2C. No Model S/X goes beyond 1.5C. Model 3 MR anecdotally hits 1.9C hitting the SC limit shared with the 3LR and S/X100 cars.
Porsche may well spend 50% or even 100% more per kWh of cells. This may well affect performance a lot.
We need to acknowledge that hybrids (dis)charge at really high rates, for very many cycles. Prius batteries do fine. Look up how many C those get on the plug let alone regenning.
Look at how potent the Chevy Volt cells are. Very popular for performance car in home garage conversions. The skinny: not as Cheaply built as Tesla cells.
Tesla, with a 120kW max charging network, zero competition and very large batteries in all their cars, never had reason to use anything but the absolute cheapest cells they could come up with. And they are. They say so themselves.
If these cells already take 1.9C and likely more, it's really not such a stretch for Porsche to get twice that. Let alone if they do in fact made a genuine effort to do something with cooling.
They are Porsche. Not some underfunded EV startup with unrealistic first design to market path. They've been at this for a while. They came up with their 2013 918 Spyder out of no-where. It was good from the get-go. A little faith.
 
I think those are relatively poor examples because they tend to go through so much less sustained high rate charging. Tesla does bursts of 4C, so the comparison there is quite even. Prius is NiMH until recently. None of those other comparisons do hundreds of hours of sustained charging at the higher rates, as Tesla owners without home charging have been known to do.
 
I think those are relatively poor examples because they tend to go through so much less sustained high rate charging. Tesla does bursts of 4C, so the comparison there is quite even. Prius is NiMH until recently. None of those other comparisons do hundreds of hours of sustained charging at the higher rates, as Tesla owners without home charging have been known to do.
Where did you get the 4C, how many seconds or minutes? I've never heard of regen over 90kW and the smallest battery every sold was 40-60kWh.
 
Agreed. I don't know of any Li-ion cells that can do 4C rate charging to enable 350 kW charging... Maybe with a lot of cooling? Tesla does push the discharge rate to the max. I believe the P90D and P100D cells are at 27A or so. I think 9C. Which is very high... Even the excellent Samsung 30Q cells don't recommend charging much above 1C.
 
You're making some mistaken conclusions. It's more about cell chemistry and design than cost. Tesla chose higher energy density over high C rate.
They made sure to get the absolute lowest cost/kWh and they brag about it. Sure, they work hard to get the fomulation to be as clean as possible, as long as it would bring durability under expected usage.
Having a very low cost/kWh tends to get you close to the highest energy density the way batteries are made today.
 
They made sure to get the absolute lowest cost/kWh and they brag about it. Sure, they work hard to get the fomulation to be as clean as possible, as long as it would bring durability under expected usage.
Having a very low cost/kWh tends to get you close to the highest energy density the way batteries are made today.

Because batteries weigh a lot, increasing energy density offers more benefits than lower density / faster charge cells.

Porsche knows that and their marketing department will try (distance you can go in 24h) convince us that fast charging is better. Good luck with that.
 
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I was thinking of discharge rate. Internal resistance produces the same temperature for discharge as it does charge. Of course other aspects of the chemistry limit sustained charge and discharge rates.
5.5C for the ludicrous cars. A fraction of a second. If true.
But cruising at 210-230kph or so is the maximum for the 18650's, just about 1C. Porsche wants to cruise at 250kph to empty.
 
There was some post saying v3 of 90kwh pack does not have tapering. Not sure of the validity of the post but if that is true, there might be some hope for us 90kwh pack people to ask for the v3 replacement?

All batteries have a taper curve but version, Internal Resistance, Changes in Internal Resistance, temperature, etc will effect what the curve is for a particular battery of a particular age in a particular environment.