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Impression of the Porsche Taycan

maximizese

Member
Jan 16, 2018
480
462
California
This is kind of BS. Where is the 2020 or 2021 MS LR+ which has way more range than the M3 LR?
I disagreed with you because the issue isn't that Tesla makes cars with significant range. Instead the issue is that Tesla overstates the EPA driving range consistently across all platforms (in some cases as high as 21%) compared to other manufacturers who understate their range (with the exception of Volvo). Now it's been argued that Teslas have a residual range beyond the "0 mile" mark but it's widely accepted that draining the battery to a %SOC so low is not advisable.

In the old days, many of us realized the significant disparity between the rated range on the instrument cluster and the observed range such that we would make a mental adjustment for a 10-20% SOC buffer between Superchargers on the trip planner (it also led to most of us seeking out more accurate 3rd-party solutions). Tesla has since improved their trip planner in addition to adding several SuC sites and stalls to the point where this is less of an issue. Additionally, many of us have found the more accurate range estimator (guessometer) in the "energy" window on the MCU and reference that instead of the range indicated in the instrument cluster.

In my opinion the overstated EPA range on the cluster is what I view as the closest thing to BS...or maybe it's the 85kWh battery pack designation when in reality it had 81kWh and about 77kWh as actually usable, and then further diminished due to software updates. This isn't to say that Tesla didn't make the best choices given the scenario nor is it saying that future manufacturers won't do similar.
 

Johan

Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!
Feb 9, 2012
7,498
9,788
Drammen, Norway
I’m on my second S and have been an owner and devoteé since 2013. I was curious about the Taycan given Porsche’s formidable history of superb engineering and quality. So I did a test drive.

I was blown away. In terms of fit, finish, handling and overall quality, this car is orders of magnitude better than anything I have ever owned (Tesla, Mercedes, BMW, LEXUS).
But what about range? I told the salesman that while I loved the car and the way it drove, I didn’t think it would meet my range needs. We have a second home 195 miles way which involves a 6800 foot vertical climb. Driving 10 miles over my 330 mile range S 100 D consumes 290 miles of range. To make a long story short, they leant me a used 2020 Turbo to test it. My wife followed me in case it couldn’t make it.

I was stunned by the results. In terms of range the Porsche out performed my Tesla. I arrived with 50 miles of range left -better than my S100D. Porsche truly under promises and over delivers.

This is far , far different than a Tesla, a completely different concept. It is a Porsche with electric motors (and a two speed transmission!)-100% Porsche. When Apple came out with the iPhone it was not a new telephone it was an entirely new product segment. That’s what Musk with Tesla. He didn’t just take a car and put electric motors in it he designed a entirely new electric vehicle. Much different.
Thank you for taking the time to write this first ever post after having joined the forum today. It seems really honest /s

Claiming that you would drive the same route in a Taycan turbo v.s. a Model S 100D in the same manor and after arrival being able to keep driving both cars until the Tesla runs out of battery and then be able to go another 50 miles in the Porsche is a straight up lie and everyone on the forum who knows EVs knows this.

Which is why the rest of your review is also likely a lie.

The Taycan is a nice car, one of my friends has one, better than a Model S in many regards. Range not being one of them.
 

arghx7

Member
Aug 6, 2019
502
506
Michigan
A new Model S LR with the improved interior is $80k without any options and basic autopilot. That's a lot more value, and likely more real world road trip range, than a Taycan 4S.

So if you're blown away by a Taycan, ok, fine, but it's expensive and it doesn't work at Superchargers.
 
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cusetownusa

Member
Jan 29, 2020
532
880
Syracuse NY
I disagreed with you because the issue isn't that Tesla makes cars with significant range. Instead the issue is that Tesla overstates the EPA driving range consistently across all platforms (in some cases as high as 21%) compared to other manufacturers who understate their range (with the exception of Volvo). Now it's been argued that Teslas have a residual range beyond the "0 mile" mark but it's widely accepted that draining the battery to a %SOC so low is not advisable.

In the old days, many of us realized the significant disparity between the rated range on the instrument cluster and the observed range such that we would make a mental adjustment for a 10-20% SOC buffer between Superchargers on the trip planner (it also led to most of us seeking out more accurate 3rd-party solutions). Tesla has since improved their trip planner in addition to adding several SuC sites and stalls to the point where this is less of an issue. Additionally, many of us have found the more accurate range estimator (guessometer) in the "energy" window on the MCU and reference that instead of the range indicated in the instrument cluster.

In my opinion the overstated EPA range on the cluster is what I view as the closest thing to BS...or maybe it's the 85kWh battery pack designation when in reality it had 81kWh and about 77kWh as actually usable, and then further diminished due to software updates. This isn't to say that Tesla didn't make the best choices given the scenario nor is it saying that future manufacturers won't do similar.

The EPA test is the same for all cars...Tesla, nor other manufacturers can just make up their EPA numbers.

watch this video if you really want to understand the EPA test and why Tesla doesn't hit the EPA number at highway speeds. Part of the problem is the EPA test and the expectations is projects and the fact that there are a million variables that can impact the range at any given moment.

 

skiwhmts

Member
Feb 12, 2021
46
41
New England
The problem with Porsche is that you need to use their dealer network which is use too charging stupid high prices for everything. They make BMW dealers seem reasonable. People complain about Tesla but any brand with legacy protected ICE car dealers are more likely to over charge you in my opinion.
 
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jsight

Member
Apr 5, 2018
638
446
Charleston
Can't wait to see the battery degradation stats on Taycans and Mach-e. One of Tesla's secret sauces is battery management that is proven.
I'm 50/50 on this right now. Tesla cars seem to show ~5% degradation in the first year and this is not totally insignificant.

With the larger buffers, will the Taycan and Mach-E do the same? Or better? Also, the Mach-E in particular has a really weird charge curve. It would go from weird to really problematic with moderate degradation, so will that happen?

All of these are open questions at this point, and I'm not assuming any answers. So far the 2170 packs in the 3 and Y have done pretty well, though and are much more of a known quantity.
 

Str8down

Member
Jan 28, 2021
108
189
Jax beach
I disagreed with you because the issue isn't that Tesla makes cars with significant range. Instead the issue is that Tesla overstates the EPA driving range consistently across all platforms (in some cases as high as 21%) compared to other manufacturers who understate their range (with the exception of Volvo). Now it's been argued that Teslas have a residual range beyond the "0 mile" mark but it's widely accepted that draining the battery to a %SOC so low is not advisable.

In the old days, many of us realized the significant disparity between the rated range on the instrument cluster and the observed range such that we would make a mental adjustment for a 10-20% SOC buffer between Superchargers on the trip planner (it also led to most of us seeking out more accurate 3rd-party solutions). Tesla has since improved their trip planner in addition to adding several SuC sites and stalls to the point where this is less of an issue. Additionally, many of us have found the more accurate range estimator (guessometer) in the "energy" window on the MCU and reference that instead of the range indicated in the instrument cluster.

In my opinion the overstated EPA range on the cluster is what I view as the closest thing to BS...or maybe it's the 85kWh battery pack designation when in reality it had 81kWh and about 77kWh as actually usable, and then further diminished due to software updates. This isn't to say that Tesla didn't make the best choices given the scenario nor is it saying that future manufacturers won't do similar.
I guess I should have been more specific. I was referring to the "EV Range Leaderboard"
 

SilverGS

Active Member
Nov 3, 2016
1,608
930
Ontario
A new Model S LR with the improved interior is $80k without any options and basic autopilot. That's a lot more value, and likely more real world road trip range, than a Taycan 4S.
Not the latest Model S, but here is Edmunds results with the pre-refresh Model S performance -
ev_ranges_05f1d27828174a9c25b4265455fc059d9dce7cd4.png
 

pabla

Member
Oct 17, 2016
285
151
Vancouver
I am going to be honest there is a fairly large price difference between a Taycan and a Model S. I picked my up my brand new Model S LR+ in December for 120k CAD taxes in, and for that price the Model S does not feel like its worth it at all. Creaks rattles in the interior, a little bit of buggy software, already having parts failing and no real high end features (Think the refresh fixes this). Its my second Model S and most likely will be my last, however that goes to show what buyer I am. I don't care that much about AP and FSD so what does that leave, a decent EV. A lot of others put importance on AP and FSD and makes sense why they may opt for a Model S over a Taycan, but that just goes to show that they are both targeting totally different markets.
 
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pabla

Member
Oct 17, 2016
285
151
Vancouver
The thing about the Toucan is to me it feels like more of a Model 3 competitor. I've only seen one from the outside but peering in, that backseat looks rather small. The MS just seems like a far bigger car on the inside.
How does a 150k car compete with a 40k car.. remember there are cars sold for different purposes
 

pabla

Member
Oct 17, 2016
285
151
Vancouver
Size, performance, range, drivetrain?
Yea there are a lot of cars that have similar performance for cheaper prices. Lets do the main one how about in terms of price, reliability, quality fit and finish, customizability, prestige, engineering, the list goes on. Remember Tesla's on paper look great in the real world not so much
 
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zer0cool

Member
Apr 26, 2015
506
332
charlotte, nc
I drove the Taycan 4s extensively (given to me as a loaner) when my Cayenne was being serviced a couple months ago. The car is a Porsche first and an EV second. I don't feel it competes with any Tesla at the moment (if we disregard the EV part). The Model S feels more like a BMW 5 series. The Tacycan is definitely closer to a 911 than a Panamera. It's not as sporty or direct as a 911, given its size and weight, but the suspension, steering and handling are all pretty close. It in NO WAY drives like a luxury sedan - instead it's tight to the bone. Basically if you want a slightly bigger 911 that can kind of fit 4 people and don't mind the extra weight, this is your car. I feel it's closer to the 911 than the Panamera (subtract the engine sound however).

The car is very much high quality; but honestly all German cars above a certain price have similar quality and it's only some luxury features and materials that differ. I would say the interior feels similar to any well equipped Porsche.

Again I treat Model S more like a sport sedan, kind of like a 5 series BMW... it's not built or intended to be as sharp as a sports car.
 

2101Guy

Active Member
Jan 6, 2020
1,800
1,870
USA
when people say "tesla overstated their EPA #'s", and "porsche understated their EPA #'s", what exactly does that even mean?
I thought there was a VERY specific test that is done for BOTH cars. As in IDENTICAL testing. And the EPA sets the #'s.

Or are some people unaware?
 

dannycamps

Member
Apr 8, 2019
703
635
Northeast USA
Not the latest Model S, but here is Edmunds results with the pre-refresh Model S performance -
View attachment 648155

DId anyone else catch up on the follow-up discussion with this when Edmunds questions why Tesla falls so short of their EV range? Apparently the engineers told Edmunds that if you drive the cars past the point when it hits 0 miles of range left (e.g. complete rundown), the numbers get closer. Indeed when Edmunds tested it, they found that the Model 3 drove for another 22-25 miles at 65 MPH after hitting 0.

miles-after-zero-indicate-range.jpg


Source:
 
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Cheburashka

Active Member
Jan 29, 2018
2,386
2,965
Los Gatos, CA
when people say "tesla overstated their EPA #'s", and "porsche understated their EPA #'s", what exactly does that even mean?
I thought there was a VERY specific test that is done for BOTH cars. As in IDENTICAL testing. And the EPA sets the #'s.

Or are some people unaware?

I actually don't think that's how it is.
 

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