In a state of shock!......"this happens often and we are frustrated at the sales team level"

[CmdrThor]

2. THIS experience: I did have a quote in writing...a deposit down...written out numbers AND they made a big deal out of "shaking hands" on the deal.

So if you put your deposit down you should have a Motor Vehicle Purchase Agreement, correct? I've never bought an inventory car, but when I ordered my X, my reservation deposit turned into a non-refundable order deposit and I got the purchase agreement right away which listed the price, configuration, etc.

 

[stopcrazypp]

So if you put your deposit down you should have a Motor Vehicle Purchase Agreement, correct? I've never bought an inventory car, but when I ordered my X, my reservation deposit turned into a non-refundable order deposit and I got the purchase agreement right away which listed the price, configuration, etc.

Right, I would presume he locked in a specific inventory car and he has all the details on it (including VIN). The OP can post the VIN here and we can see what went wrong (is it the quarterly price change?) or if it's perhaps just a difference in trade in value in which case the OP can sell private party or use a third party service.

So far we have no information on how there can be a $15k difference.

Also, the hours of negotiation does not match with what Elon says is no longer allowed (unless this happened a few months ago).

 

[HankLloydRight]

Exactly.. do you have a MVPA? If not, where did the deposit go?

If you do have an executed MVPA, it's an open/shut case.

I still don't see what took three hours to negotiate, unless you were nibbling them down at $5,000/hour.

 

[Mobster]

Welcome back to the forum. Your first post in almost two years is a stream of thought vent about a sales problem? Also, asking for Elon's email address on a forum? Are you really a lobbyist? (not clear if your name "Mobster" is intended to be a slight joke)

Did you try asking the person at your local Tesla showroom to speak with someone higher up about the matter?

* update: Your last post makes it sound like the people at the store/showroom wouldn't give you the contact info for someone higher up, which sounds strange.

Reply: Yes first post in a while. I read the posts. You know....listen more than talk! I did not have anything significant to add to the wisdom I was getting from this forum. It is great. Yes it was a "vent". I was sad and amazed....caught off guard. The first response for the escalation "tree" was "Don't know...someone new," I did eventually get it from the "showroom manager" who first wanted to argue endlessly, interrupt me, throw his front line person under the bus (I hate when management does that - not necessary or appropriate behavior. In fact, the whole telephone conversation with that manager was an example of how NOT to talk to a customer.....very confrontational and I had to ask him several times to stop as I only wanted escalation information which, to his credit, he eventually gave me. I have contacted them. and yes "Mobster" is a joke. Yes, to answer your question I am a Registered Legislative Lobbyist - registered with the people who oversee our activities - Public Disclosure Commission in my state. Specializing in consumer issues/legislation. As many retired people, I also keep busy with other ventures - investing, Consulting on Business as well as Political processes...and other stuff. The Elon email....was a bit of a joke. We will see if escalation is fruitful. Without going into details right now....as of last night it was looking promising. We will see.

 

[Mobster]

This will just put everyone on defense. If you want to be treated with respect it helps to be respectful. Someone, a person - a human - made a mistake. It happens. It's what people do after they make a mistake that shows their true character. And for people who were wronged because of someone else's mistake, how much empathy they show that person shows their true character.

You are 100% correct. ANY escalation will be following your exact advice. (already has)

 

[andrewket]

Ok, here is my next piece of advice. Stop posting here on the forum. You're far more likely to reach an agreeable solution if the people at Tesla that you're talking to don't feel like every word they utter is going to be posted here. Perhaps when it's all said and done you can reply here "Tesla and I were able to reach a solution that was agreeable to both of us and I love my car" or "It didn't work out." Leave it as simple as that.

 

[Mobster]

Exactly.. do you have a MVPA? If not, where did the deposit go?

If you do have an executed MVPA, it's an open/shut case.

I still don't see what took three hours to negotiate, unless you were nibbling them down at $5,000/hour.

Clarification: NO NEGOTIATION....NO YOU CANNOT DO THAT WITH TESLA...(caps for emphasis I am not yelling!) no nibbling....it was all THEM ...the "owner Adviser" nice young man spent AFTER STORE CLOSING running back and forth calling/faxing "the pricing team". Yes it was weird. Apparently there are new processes and he was working hard to follow them. I drank cofffee. It all ended with his wish to "shake hands" on a deal and congratulate me on my new Tesla. Next morning price goes up from "pricing team". Deal canceled. My deposit from the night before was processed at my bank and still shows I paid $2500 .... next morning they said they would process a refund of that deposit. The world is changing

 

[HankLloydRight]

Ok, now we're getting somewhere. What documents did you sign with the deposit? There had to be something with the final numbers, yes?

 

[Skotty]

Exactly.. do you have a MVPA? If not, where did the deposit go?

If you do have an executed MVPA, it's an open/shut case.

May or may not be relevant to this situation, but interesting to think about. People are suggesting that a deposit exchanged for MVPA is a huge factor, likely the decisive factor on whether or not Tesla would be obligated to honor the price. Assuming this is so, lets play out an ambiguous case. What if the deposit was in the form of a check, but it was late, so the the sales guy takes the check and says he will get the MVPA paperwork done in the morning. The next morning he realizes there is a price error, and contacts the buyer to inform them of the problem. Where would this situation stand legally? The MVPA isn't written yet, and presumably the check hasn't been deposited (presumption that they can't deposit the check until after the MVPA is official), but a check has been handed over and accepted; could this hold some weight legally? And is it possible to make it even more ambiguous?

Again, this is just an academic exercise that is kind of fun to think about.

EDIT -- Just saw another response while I was writing my last post. Claim that Tesla did in fact cash the check. This would certainly make it more ambiguous, and throw more favor on the buyer I would think.

 

[Mobster]

Right, I would presume he locked in a specific inventory car and he has all the details on it (including VIN). The OP can post the VIN here and we can see what went wrong (is it the quarterly price change?) or if it's perhaps just a difference in trade in value in which case the OP can sell private party or use a third party service.

So far we have no information on how there can be a $15k difference.

Also, the hours of negotiation does not match with what Elon says is no longer allowed (unless this happened a few months ago).

Again....not hours of negotiation....they don't negotiate. It was the "Owner Adviser" running back and forth to phone/fax working with what he called the "pricing team". Yes weird. Yes VERY different from the other demo I purchased. The conversation with the "showroom" manager was even weirder. I am awaiting escalation feedback. I had a very GOOD conversation with a district/territory manager last night. I was promised a call back with solution this morning. Nothing so far. I am fighting being cynical that even THAT will turn out to be non existent. Optimism is probably better.

 

[HankLloydRight]

I agree there can be ambiguity in that (or this) case, and everyone is different. Being a software and database engineer kind of guy, I would have wanted something actually executed in order to document the deposit, the VIN, and the final pricing before leaving. I wouldn't want to leave and then find out the next day the car was sold to someone else just because the proper paperwork wasn't executed the night before (which has happened to people here!).

If a check was accepted and a deal agreed upon a handshake, and then rescinded... I'd think that does have some weight -- it all depends on how much one wants to fight it up the chain to force their hand. I'm always concerned in that case of having a Scarlet Letter emblazoned on my 'permanent record' --- "oh, it's that guy in here again".

 

[ABC2D]

@Mobster, you've been asked a couple of times but keep ditching these questions.

OP, I think this is a list of questions for you

1. Did you put down a deposit and sign a contract?
2. What was the trade-in offer at the end of the night?
3. What was the trade-in offer next morning?
4. What was the price of the car at the end of the night?
5. What was the price of the car the next morning?

Please answer each of these with no more than 10 characters.

Another to add to the list:
6. What was the VIN?

 

[Mobster]

May or may not be relevant to this situation, but interesting to think about. People are suggesting that a deposit exchanged for MVPA is a huge factor, likely the decisive factor on whether or not Tesla would be obligated to honor the price. Assuming this is so, lets play out an ambiguous case. What if the deposit was in the form of a check, but it was late, so the the sales guy takes the check and says he will get the MVPA paperwork done in the morning. The next morning he realizes there is a price error, and contacts the buyer to inform them of the problem. Where would this situation stand legally? The MVPA isn't written yet, and presumably the check hasn't been deposited (presumption that they can't deposit the check until after the MVPA is official), but a check has been handed over and accepted; could this hold some weight legally? And is it possible to make it even more ambiguous?

Again, this is just an academic exercise that is kind of fun to think about.

Good analysis. I have worked with a number of clients that get involved in drama and they conversationally tell me ..."Oh I just tell people 'So sue me!' They are making a good bet that most consumers shrug shoulders and mark it up to "live and learn". Interesting when people say "slam dunk" if you have paper. In my operations now - Lobbying/Business consulting I see a growing number of interests that rely on the fact litigation is expensive and risky. Go to court over "Breach of Contract"? ..........Anyway you are correct....academic exercises ARE fun to mull over. In the political arena it is done almost HOURLY. "What if person A has cause to....." For anyone who has seen "The Paper Chase" (movie - I am showing my age!) You get an idea of what fun these academic exercises are and how complicated it can get. Now....there is, as I said, a certain amount of reliance that "average" people (like us?) will NOT litigate. My daughter owns her own business in California as a musician and calls me often with scenarios that end up with "I am right and I have all the backup right?" As a dad I then have to remind her it is NOT a "slam dunk".....this must be litigated. (or mediated -seldom agreed to IMHE) She moans, having been through the court system (civil not criminal!) and usually just moves on. Still fun to put the "facts" on the table (deposits - made by credit card and already hitting the account, MVPA's, hand shakes, etc) and talk about "weight legally". Sure. But the "weight legally" requires a decision (particularly if you are told too bad pound sand) to head into our courts. i get involved in the legal hypothetical often.

 

[ABC2D]

I'm sorry, sir, but the more I read @Mobster posts the weirder it gets. This whole thing just does not make any sense. No mention of the paid deposit in the OP; recorded conversations, "Registered Legislative Lobbyist" (whatever that means), "pricing team", "let's shake hands", "it is happening a LOT; and he would be happy if I escalated and got some action which would improve this ongoing problem", refunding deposit, (apparently) no necessary paperwork...

Sorry, no recommendation from me. This story either an enormous screwup by Tesla, in which case I really wish the OP resolves it in his favor; or an elaborate made up story in which we all are taken for a fun ride.

 

[jaguar36]

It would seem to me that if you had the price in writing, shook hands, and gave them money, that's a legally binding contract. An offer was made and accepted, and something of value changed hands. Seems pretty open and shut.

 

[Mobster]

@Mobster, you've been asked a couple of times but keep ditching these questions.

This is not a court to litigate this here and I absolutely do NOT take orders or demands. This situation is in escalation and it looks promising so I HAVE learned not spray out exact details and kill negotiations to side interested parties as if this was the "People's Court". Ridiculous. The post started out as a VENT and nothing more. Ignore it if it drives you to know all that went on. I am not looking for a bunch of people to storm Tesla in my behalf or to have YOU represent me legally as your interrogatory appears. I HAVE NOT DUCKED THE QUESTION OF THE DEPOSIT ....READ PLEASE OTHER POSTS. I did make a deposit. It hit my charge card. I have said repeatedly the trade in offer is NOT in any way part of the contention, so NO, I will not answer any part of THAT interrogation. . Geeze. The price of the car as I stated before went up $15,000....no I will not post a copy of the deal. Again silly. Sorry if this upsets you in your search for knowledge but it does not help by the snarky "you are ducking questions". This is not a deposition! I answer questions that are appropriate and that will not jeopardize my case either in escalation/mediation or in a breach of contract suit. I know the law. I will however, post the general outcome probably soon. It will be general....as I KNOW Tesla does not want recordings or our current discussions plastered all over the place. It will be either 1. I walk away and still love my Tesla saving money for the future P200d? with "space warp" speed mode even faster than ludicrous - you know...vent and go on with my life OR 2. I will post if Tesla honors the deposit and the deal (again NEVER being slammed into "you better answer my questions 1,2,3,4 and with x number of characters" I am NOT asking for anything from you. Move on.

 

[Mobster]

I'm sorry, sir, but the more I read @Mobster posts the weirder it gets. This whole thing just does not make any sense. No mention of the paid deposit in the OP; recorded conversations, "Registered Legislative Lobbyist" (whatever that means), "pricing team", "let's shake hands", "it is happening a LOT; and he would be happy if I escalated and got some action which would improve this ongoing problem", refunding deposit, (apparently) no necessary paperwork...

Sorry, no recommendation from me. This story either an enormous screwup by Tesla, in which case I really wish the OP resolves it in his favor; or an elaborate made up story in which we all are taken for a fun ride.

Not a made up story. And one of two things will happen 1. They say this is the way it is and I should move on with my life and hopefully still love my current Tesla and the Tesla company. Resentment over time is not healthy and Tesla has earned respect over time. OR 2. The escalation I am now involved in results in honoring the original deal. In any case it is a real story and I know there are people with MUCH bigger problems than mine so looking forward to moving on. I will post the general results.

 

[Driver Dave]

I did have a quote in writing...a deposit down...written out numbers AND they made a big deal out of "shaking hands"

Yeah, I can see why you would be fairly upset if you got quote, deposit, numbers and hand shake, and then the price went up next day.

Hopefully they will make it right for you.

Best of luck!

 

[Mobster]

Ok, here is my next piece of advice. Stop posting here on the forum. You're far more likely to reach an agreeable solution if the people at Tesla that you're talking to don't feel like every word they utter is going to be posted here. Perhaps when it's all said and done you can reply here "Tesla and I were able to reach a solution that was agreeable to both of us and I love my car" or "It didn't work out." Leave it as simple as that.

There is nothing better than excellent advice. Yours fits. I will report on my escalation outcome.

I agree there can be ambiguity in that (or this) case, and everyone is different. Being a software and database engineer kind of guy, I would have wanted something actually executed in order to document the deposit, the VIN, and the final pricing before leaving. I wouldn't want to leave and then find out the next day the car was sold to someone else just because the proper paperwork wasn't executed the night before (which has happened to people here!).

If a check was accepted and a deal agreed upon a handshake, and then rescinded... I'd think that does have some weight -- it all depends on how much one wants to fight it up the chain to force their hand. I'm always concerned in that case of having a Scarlet Letter emblazoned on my 'permanent record' --- "oh, it's that guy in here again".

Good point. Will work to mend fences when all is said and done after escalation.

 

[Max*]

If OP talks they way he writes I sympathize with the salesperson.

I think this

Without hard numbers to back up your story, it sounds very one sided. I think we'd all want the best outcome for you, but please don't withhold pertinent facts in the case which would help us better support you.

And this about summarize the thread at this point in time.