Initial 1000 HW2 cars getting AP software 12/31/16

[Shorty]

Why is it that Tesla is the only vehicle manufacturer who does it this way? Other car companies do this amazing thing that Tesla is apparently unfamiliar with... it's called TESTING. When you buy any other car, what you get already works and has been tested to work. When you buy a Tesla, you are paying to help the manufacturer figure things out on your dime and at your own risk.

How is that going to fly with a half million pissed of Model 3 owners when they experience their own version of this? I suspect it won't go so smoothly for Tesla.

It's a clear out for Tesla. Clear as day to me.

Actually they are not the only manufacturer that has software problems. I also own a Maserati and it is a far more expensive car and glitches far more often than my Tesla. Maserati and Ferrari owners call it an 'Italian reset' which is basically disconnecting the battery to reboot your car. The difference is that Tesla eventually fixes their software problems.

 

[whitex]

Well, yes it does. The hardware and software has changed ... it needs to be (re-)validated. Also, the AP2 hardware needs to be present to implement the software, and to train it. There is necessarily a delay ... it is unavoidable. This was clear, and should have been communicated to new buyers. The ones upgraded from their ordered AP1 to AP2 because they did unexpectedly lose function (temporarily) -- but if it was I, I would have been glad to get much greater potential function, a worthy trade.

Do you really think the auto-wipers feature is held up on regulatory aproval?

 

[3Victoria]

I think Tesla needs to deal with this before it becomes a much bigger issue

I am a physician, too, so appreciate your position. I think you were aware that functionality was coming in the future, it does appear that (at least some of) the Tesla crew are not conveying this to their clients, and that needs correcting. While this was quite clear in numerous online articles, after rereading the Tesla website it is apparent that while it promises enhanced AP in the future, it does actually say that AP is non-existent in the new cars. As a sop, you still have the best car available and it will get better .. can't say that for many things! So enjoy.

 

[3Victoria]

Do you really think the auto-wipers feature is held up on regulatory aproval?

Yes, since it is part of the software package and it would be stupid to waste time trying to push it out separately.

 

[Shorty]

I am a physician, too, so appreciate your position. I think you were aware that functionality was coming in the future, it does appear that (at least some of) the Tesla crew are not conveying this to their clients, and that needs correcting. While this was quite clear in numerous online articles, after rereading the Tesla website it is apparent that while it promises enhanced AP in the future, it does actually say that AP is non-existent in the new cars. As a sop, you still have the best car available and it will get better .. can't say that for many things! So enjoy.

Good to see another Victoria owner! Two very important questions though:

1. Do you need any 21" tires!
2. Are you a GP and accepting new patients

 

[Skalinator]

So something interesting: I had the update installed New Year's Eve. Took it out for a test drive New Year's Day, couldn't use anything, "camera calibrating" message. I drove max 20 miles New Year's Day. I drove it this morning, and was able to use TACC right away. So it does seem it's not necessarily a time driven in your car or miles driven in your car as far as I can tell.

I tested TACC and autosteer. I had to go out and find traffic on the freeway to test it, it won't work unless you are on the freeway and going under 35 mph. The one day in Southern California traffic is light is today lol, so I was only able to find about a 5 minute backup. But Autosteer worked great, but it wasn't a long test of a difficult freeway (5 freeway).

TACC worked everywhere I tried it. I drove about an hour on and off freeways with it. Over all on the freeway it works great, though it struggles when the radar hits a freeway overpass. It will slow down pretty dramatically for about 2 seconds then it will work itself out and continue on. I let it do this many times, it always recovered I would say It went from 65 down to about 45-50 mph. Not optimal, but I know tesla has talked about this issue and the past and specifically said fleet learning will address that issue. It didn't have that issue over most overpasses I would say, but it did happen 3-4 times.

One thing that worked great was merging onto a different freeway on ramp with a curve. TACC was set to 75, there was a broad curve to this onramp. TACC slowed down to 55-60 to handle the curve then speed back up just like I would have done. Smooth overall.

On the roads, I used it in heavy stop and go traffic, it worked decent most of the time. One time as i was driving next to a bicyclist in the bicycle lane it freaked out and slowed way down then recovered about a second later. The acceleration and breaking can be smoother for sure, but it's not horrible. I got used to it in about 10 minutes.

I think we have to remember Tesla is essentially starting over developing their own image recognition, sensor network etc. I like the idea that it's in house now, not having to depend on mobileeye. But with good comes bad, this means we have to go through all of this "beta" period crap where the software is not 100%. I have had the car about a month and about every two weeks I have recived new updates giving me new features. That's pretty awesome when you think about it. So, things are moving, just be patient.

 

[3Victoria]

1. Do you need any 21" tires!

Sorry, no.

2. Are you a GP and accepting new patients

I am a GP-trained hospitalist, so no, not accepting patients - sorry again.

 

[whitex]

Yes, since it is part of the software package and it would be stupid to waste time trying to push it out separately.

So why didn't it go out with yesterday's update, or the one before then? If your assumption is correct that every update goes through complete aproval, auto-wipers should have been here already.

 

[SoloRX7]

Over all on the freeway it works great, though it struggles when the radar hits a freeway overpass. It will slow down pretty dramatically for about 2 seconds then it will work itself out and continue on. I let it do this many times, it always recovered I would say It went from 65 down to about 45-50 mph.

You were creating new backups and slowdowns so others could test behind you . I'm poking fun here, but in all seriousness - this is a hazard. I realize it will get better, but geez... that shouldn't be a 'feature' that is happening on our highways. Somewhere way back in the inchworm that this created there could easily be a rear-end collision.

 

[oktane]

Well, yes it does. The hardware and software has changed ... it needs to be (re-)validated. Also, the AP2 hardware needs to be present to implement the software, and to train it. There is necessarily a delay ... it is unavoidable. This was clear, and should have been communicated to new buyers. The ones upgraded from their ordered AP1 to AP2 because they did unexpectedly lose function (temporarily) -- but if it was I, I would have been glad to get much greater potential function, a worthy trade.

Re-read what you just wrote. Re-validating hardware and software is NOT regulatory approval. Regulatory approval means government laws, not working on technical aspects that should have been figured out before offering something for sale.

I will also agree that those of us with Model S/X are probably well off financially to a point where we're a little less concerned about money with more (literally) "disposable" income. These type of similar shenanigans by Tesla will not be tolerated by the masses when they have invested their hard-earned savings and features aren't delivered as promised. I hope Tesla works out all features before offering them for sale on the Model 3.

I will say something positive though about Tesla. For the first time I tried "Max battery power" and what a difference it makes. It makes an already fast car literally insane. I think I was averaging 700 Whr per mile.

 

[Ohji]

A question for those that have the update:

I figured that when they enabled the speed limit assist a couple of iterations back, the function would use the cameras to determine the speed limit. I have noticed, however, that the system doesn't recognize the speed limit in many places, and the speed limit is flat out wrong in others. When it is wrong, it is repeatedly wrong in the exact same spot, so I figure that functionality is using some sort of database of speed limits instead of reading the speed limit directly.

Has anyone with the update noticed a change/improvement in the speed limit assist?

 

[andrewket]

I think tesla would have been better off positioning the pricing as a discount for buying it now when it's not done vs a penalty for buying it later, but I guess that's semantics.

 

[182RG]

This was clear, and should have been communicated to new buyers. The ones upgraded from their ordered AP1 to AP2 because they did unexpectedly lose function (temporarily) -- but if it was I, I would have been glad to get much greater potential function, a worthy trade.

No, it wasn't clear. The message was "expect AP on HW2 to be at parity or better than AP on HW1 by December 2016." That was the message.

 

[182RG]

and was told by the Assistant Manager of the store that the new HW2 cars would have the AP1 functionality (but better) in "a week or so".

A consistent theme.....

 

[ucmndd]

No, it wasn't clear. The message was "expect AP on HW2 to be at parity or better than AP on HW1 by December 2016." That was the message.

I was never conveyed this message by any human at Tesla nor anything I read in any official (Tesla website, blog, etc) or unofficial (Elon's Twitter) communication.

I was ALWAYS under the impression that the initial EAP software release would be sometime around December and that it would be an *initial* release that would be incrementally improved upon with new features throughout 2017, at some point surpassing the capabilities present in AP1.

It's unfortunate that others missed this message or that some Tesla employees misrepresented it to buyers, but I think it's categorically false to suggest your interpretation was "the message".

 

[LosAngelesDude]

Given the consistency of the inaccurate information provided to many people, it seems clear that Tesla educated their sales staff to provide inaccurate information.

Hahahahah!!! So true! Elon better fixes these issues before talking more about going to Mars. Focus one at a time.

 

[Skalinator]

You were creating new backups and slowdowns so others could test behind you . I'm poking fun here, but in all seriousness - this is a hazard. I realize it will get better, but geez... that shouldn't be a 'feature' that is happening on our highways. Somewhere way back in the inchworm that this created there could easily be a rear-end collision.

I totally agree, I suspect this will be fixed this months update

 

[HX_Guy]

I was never conveyed this message by any human at Tesla nor anything I read in any official (Tesla website, blog, etc) or unofficial (Elon's Twitter) communication.

I was ALWAYS under the impression that the initial EAP software release would be sometime around December and that it would be an *initial* release that would be incrementally improved upon with new features throughout 2017, at some point surpassing the capabilities present in AP1.

It's unfortunate that others missed this message or that some Tesla employees misrepresented it to buyers, but I think it's categorically false to suggest your interpretation was "the message".

[/QUOTE]


Would you mind showing specifically where on Tesla's site you were given the impression that initial EAP means no AP at all? Please do not point to the blog post from October 19th that requires multiple clicks to stumble across. I'm talking someone going in to place an order today through the Design Studio.

Here is what I see and what my understanding was...

Order a Tesla Model S | Tesla

Enhanced Autopilot

Enchanted Autopilot adds new capabilities to the Tesla Autopilot driving experiences. The enhancements include going from one to four camera for greater accuracy redundancy, and to see fast-approaching vehicles in adjacent lanes. In addition, 12 ultrasonic sonar sensors provide 360 degree coverage around your car with almost twice the range and resolution of the prior version.

The significantly increased sensor information is processed by a computer that is over 40 times more power than before. Your Tesla will math speed to traffic conditions, keep within a lane, automatically change lanes without requiring driver input, transition from one freeway to another, exit the freeway when your designation is near, self-park when near a parking spot and be summoned to and from your garage. That said, Enhanced Autopilot should still be considered a driver's assistance feature with the driver responsible for remaining in control of the car at all times.

Tesla's Enhanced Autopilot software is expected to compete validation and be rolled out to your car via an over-the-air update in December 2016, subject to regulatory approval.

The very very first sentence of that whole package description states "adds new capabilities". To me, that means to existing capabilities...where are those capabilities?

And the only thing that hints at ALL of the functions not working is the very end tidbit about" subject to regulatory approval" but as has been already discussed, this is not a regulatory delay at this point.

EDIT: To add, compare the above to what they say about the Full Self-Driving Capability package. Specifically - "Please note that Self-Driving functionality is dependent upon extensive software validation and regulatory approval, which may vary widely by jurisdiction. It is not possible to know exactly when each element of the functionality described above will be available..."

That right there, is clear and to the point that they plan on having it sometime in the future, but no one expects it to be available any time soon...at least not me. Enhanced Autopilot on the other hand, has an actual date and states that is adding on current capabilities. Big differences here.

 

[eloder]

These type of similar shenanigans by Tesla will not be tolerated by the masses when they have invested their hard-earned savings and features aren't delivered as promised. I hope Tesla works out all features before offering them for sale on the Model 3.

As one of those who'll be investing my hard-earned savings on a Model 3, I'd disagree.

The Model 3 has probably at least a year's worth of backlog to go through. People who didn't even see the car before depositing money, followed by people who are waiting 1+ years for actual delivery of the car.

By the time your average non-tech-enthusiast Joe Schmoe will even consider buying a Model 3, it'll have well over a year of public "beta testing" already done. Given that they also have stated new tech will come to the S/X/expensive cars first, I doubt you'll ever see beta testing by a non-enthusiast, lower-income individual.

 

[JonG]

I will say something positive though about Tesla. For the first time I tried "Max battery power" and what a difference it makes. It makes an already fast car literally insane. I think I was averaging 700 Whr per mile.

We'll probably be told soon that Max battery power can only use 10 times.

Enhanced AP marketing, apart from still saying it will hopefully be available last year which in itself is just a sign of incimpetence, also says it "adds new capabilities to the Tesla auto pilot experience". That implies it's more than what went before and it's logical it's this extra bit that requires approval as the existing bit already exists.

We've had this same old debate time and time again. It's EAP, before it was battery size, 1 foot roll out only on P cars making the gap from the non P cars artificial, the power output, even original AP timescales, what constitutes Beta. Anyone complaining gets accused of shorting the stock or should go buy something else. Maybe it's because we actually want tesla to succeed and if as people who are early adopters and tolerant in general to the associated problems we see this as too much abuse of customer loyalty, then the mainstream certainly would. I'll accuse those blindly supporting tesla to be desperate for confirmation bias which they only get from each other. You can't debate with people that won't listen.

If Apple bought out a new iPhone and said email would be along soon, and then when email did come, you couldn't include attachments or send to more than one person and for good measure you cant unplug the damn phone half the time, and your EQ values resets each time, Apple would have a real issue. They made that mistake with the model where they had go free issued cases because of poor reception in the end. Steve Jobs eventually admitted he knew there was a problem but thought denial was the best approach and then sent s stupid patch to change the number of signal strength bars. They're not making that mistake again as the truth eventually comes out.