Interesting finding about Range Mode

[David99]

I have pretty good evidence that Tesla changed the passive cool target to 40 C for all cars even with range mode off. Odd.

What is this based on? I would love to hear your findings.
I have been keeping an eye on battery temperature for a while now and noticed that it always starts heating the battery when it's below 30 degree Celsius but switches to cooling once it gets over 30. But, it doesn't seem to make any strong efforts to keep it down. Depending on outdoor temps and driving it often goes up to 40 or even higher. I have to say that all my experience since I was able to monitor temperature have been in warm climate.

 

[robby]

I too would love some data on this. I leave range mode on at all times to get the best efficiency. I'd appreciate any quantitative data folks have that informs whether I'm putting significant stress on my battery.

 

[David99]

I too would love some data on this. I leave range mode on at all times to get the best efficiency. I'd appreciate any quantitative data folks have that informs whether I'm putting significant stress on my battery.

Here are my 2 ct.
I live in OC/Los Angeles where it's always warm or hot. Most of my trips are to even hotter areas like Las Vegas or Arizona. So I definitely have my car exposed to higher than average temperatures all the time. I also drive a lot which heats up the battery as well. After more than 2 years and 81k miles my degradation is very low, better than average. So warm temperatures can't be so bad for the battery.

Obviously storing it at cool temperatures would be ideal, but a cold batter is not efficient. To perform well and get good range the battery does much better when warm. The fact the Tesla decided to warm up the battery tells us it must be the better choice.

We have two opposing ideals. Cool temperatures are good for the battery's long life. Warm temperatures are best for efficiency. Based on my experience I would say Tesla found a good compromise. We are all concerned with degradation, but the data shows that even in less than ideal conditions degradation isn't much of an issue. I Supercharge a lot, I drive a lot, I constantly have my car in hot temperatures, I don't baby my car. My degradation is less than 5% and it has stayed the same since the last 30k miles. So it seems after the initial drop, degradation is very small and I don't think it's a concern at all.

 

[apacheguy]

Last time I checked, the battery temp was 37 C and inlet and outlet coolant temps were all jumbled for each of the modules. Usually the outlet is warmer than the inlet when passive cooling is occurring. Range mode was definitely off.

 

[apacheguy]

Following up with further evidence, last night the MS battery temp increased from 33 to 36 C while charging at 240 V/40 A. It certainly was not cooling the battery during this period.

 

[Electric700]

What is this based on? I would love to hear your findings.
I have been keeping an eye on battery temperature for a while now and noticed that it always starts heating the battery when it's below 30 degree Celsius but switches to cooling once it gets over 30. But, it doesn't seem to make any strong efforts to keep it down. Depending on outdoor temps and driving it often goes up to 40 or even higher. I have to say that all my experience since I was able to monitor temperature have been in warm climate.

I think that the heating you're referring to when the outdoor temperature is high (e.g. 90 F/32 C) is the heating that occurs while driving, since the battery's electricity transfer and motor's rotations naturally increase the temperature of the system. The heater is only turned on when the outdoor or battery temperature is low, for example when it's below 40 F/4 C. I'm not sure what the actual threshold is though.

So, it makes sense to me that the coolant line temperature input to the battery pack/charger(s)/motor is lower than the output temperature when it's hot outside, since the coolant is removing excess heat generated by the system. In the winter when it's very cold, the coolant line input temperature might be warmer than the battery pack/charger(s)/motor, so the output temperature might be cooler until the system heats up to the ideal temperature through a combination of driving + the heater being activated.

 

[hiroshiy]

On a slightly side note, have you noticed increased power usage with Range mode OFF, after the update? I have seen approximately 10% increase. With Range mode ON the power usage seems similar to me.

 

[msnow]

On a slightly side note, have you noticed increased power usage with Range mode OFF, after the update? I have seen approximately 10% increase. With Range mode ON the power usage seems similar to me.

Are you noticing that on the Energy app or just a feeling? I haven't noticed any change in power usage but to be fair I haven't focused on it.

 

[jerry33]

On a slightly side note, have you noticed increased power usage with Range mode OFF, after the update? I have seen approximately 10% increase. With Range mode ON the power usage seems similar to me.

For me there's no significant difference except in the winter, when range mode reduces the amount of battery heating on short trips.

 

[hiroshiy]

Thank you, @msnow and @jerry33. My observation is from the numbers from the trip counter. Usually, I drove like 120km/h and above (speed limit 100) and I got 190Wh/km - 200Wh/km, either Range mode was ON or OFF.

A few weeks ago I changed tires and wheels from 19" cyclone Michelin PS3 (not PS2 in Japan), to 20" 255/40R20 Bridgestone Potenza S001. Since then I experience 10% increase, like 220Wh/km with range mode OFF, as I saw this thread. Today I turned the range mode ON to see the difference. To my surprise the consumption was now back to 190.

That's why I thought something had changed with range mode OFF...

 

[Matias]

Maybe Tesla should do what every other EV has, an eco-mode. People understand and assume that in Eco Mode the car would not perform quite as well but would use less energy. Even non technical people get that.

It should also have "Advanced" settings -tab, where geeks like us could fine tune settings any possible way

 

[KJD]

Thank you, @msnow and @jerry33. My observation is from the numbers from the trip counter. Usually, I drove like 120km/h and above (speed limit 100) and I got 190Wh/km - 200Wh/km, either Range mode was ON or OFF.

A few weeks ago I changed tires and wheels from 19" cyclone Michelin PS3 (not PS2 in Japan), to 20" 255/40R20 Bridgestone Potenza S001. Since then I experience 10% increase, like 220Wh/km with range mode OFF, as I saw this thread. Today I turned the range mode ON to see the difference. To my surprise the consumption was now back to 190.

That's why I thought something had changed with range mode OFF...

What is the circumference of your 20" tires compared to your 19" tires?

If they are different you have thrown all of the calculations off.

 

[hiroshiy]

What is the circumference of your 20" tires compared to your 19" tires?

If they are different you have thrown all of the calculations off.

I think 255/40R20 gives 1% more circumference than stock 19.

 

[Matias]

Does Tesla heat up the battery, or simple stops with cooling it.

Please read the first post. In range mode coolant that enters the battery is warmer than coolant that exits the battery. So it is warming the battery.

 

[jerry33]

Thank you, @msnow and @jerry33. My observation is from the numbers from the trip counter. Usually, I drove like 120km/h and above (speed limit 100) and I got 190Wh/km - 200Wh/km, either Range mode was ON or OFF.

A few weeks ago I changed tires and wheels from 19" cyclone Michelin PS3 (not PS2 in Japan), to 20" 255/40R20 Bridgestone Potenza S001. Since then I experience 10% increase, like 220Wh/km with range mode OFF, as I saw this thread. Today I turned the range mode ON to see the difference. To my surprise the consumption was now back to 190.

That's why I thought something had changed with range mode OFF...

1. New tires have more rolling resistance than worn tires because there is more squirm in the tread compound.
2. As rim diameter gets larger and aspect ratio gets smaller, rolling resistance goes up, all things being equal (which they often aren't).

 

[hiroshiy]

1. New tires have more rolling resistance than worn tires because there is more squirm in the tread compound.
2. As rim diameter gets larger and aspect ratio gets smaller, rolling resistance goes up, all things being equal (which they often aren't).

Thanks again, @jerry33 .

I read JB's blog post about new tires causing more rolling resistance and higher power consumption around 5% (!!) for up to 1000 miles. Also as you mentioned I agree 255 is wider and will cause more RR.

Since Tesla said moving from 19" to 21" gives 3% more RR, moving from 19" 245 to 20" 255 also might give 3% more RR.

Also I changed tire from PS3 to Bridgestone S001 (very sticky tire), so this will also cause more RR.

In total 10% more consumption may be just my configuration, not by firmware change or range mode.

 

[Mattzilla]

To range mode or not to range mode, that is the question.

Also, for those of us with the refresh, range mode disables the DRL, even though it is not mentioned when you click on the "i"

 

[AWDtsla]

To range mode or not to range mode, that is the question.

Also, for those of us with the refresh, range mode disables the DRL, even though it is not mentioned when you click on the "i"

Sounds like a bug. Like that time whenever I closed the drivers door, the sunroof would go to vent position. Repeatedly.

 

[Mattzilla]

Sounds like a bug. Like that time whenever I closed the drivers door, the sunroof would go to vent position. Repeatedly.

Ha.

Unfortunately service center staff told me this is intended. When I told them my DRL wasn't working, the first thing they said to do was turn range mode off. Apparently having the DRL off saves a very small amount of energy.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Good lord, Tesla thinks it's okay to sacrifice visibility, hence safety, for a tiny amount of energy savings? That seems like a boneheaded decision.