Of course I am pro EV. The main reason for tax credit is for EV adoption. If we have $80,000 limit, that isn't going to create EV adoption. Automakers needs to be forced to create cheaper EVs (<$55k) for consumers to increase EV adoption. Otherwise these will only be for select few.
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IRS definitions of what's a car vs SUV by manufacturer for $55k vs $80k price limit
- Thread starter macheboston
- Start date
Yes and no.
(C) Gives them latitude
(B) Sets exact terms for the classes, which are defined in EPA regulations.
And light truck is:
49 CFR § 523.5 - Non-passenger automobile.
Yes. My point is to show where the people got owned.
Also, the ID.4 AWD qualification is not because of its weight, but because it is an AWD version. (Edit: this satisfies part "b.1" of the code)
However, VW should fail part b.2, as its ground clearance (6.7" < 7.87") and approach angle (20 deg < 28 deg) leave only 3 out 5 passing possibly qualifying items on the list.
I wasn't countering your post, just adding the next level of regulations.
Unless VW is switching to adaptive suspension or taller springs on their, as of yet, unreleased ID.4 Pro
(Did I say weight for them somewhere?)
There is also the question of test setup. Federal is at curb weight, Tesla is with two occupants, VW is ???
I am not arguing. I want to see where the [golden] $hit happened. My first thought was that maybe it was done in Congress, but they clearly left it up to the regulators to decide. So, it is in the power of the IRS to decide what is an SUV. By some definitions it would be a vehicle on a truck frame denying everything but some possible electric Tahoe and Hummer EV any chance for a tax credit. They (the IRS) used some EPA definitions and mostly followed the letter of the law with several prominent exceptions of Escape PHEV and VW ID.4 (and I am not sure about Audi Q5 PHEV; does it really have over 8 inch clearance? Maybe I should buy one now). The spirit of the law would tell me that Ford Mach-E should definitely get no lesser tax credit than Ford Escape PHEV or Audi Q5 PHEV.
P.S.: See, I did not have a single reference to Tesla here.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
I’ve covered this repeatedly in this thread or the other one - nobody has been able to produce official ground clearance specs for the 2023 ID.4.
There are many reports on ID.4 forums that actual ground clearance is in excess of 8 inches, with the exception of small plastic protrusions (mud flaps basically) in the front of each wheel.
if you were VW, would you remove the tiny plastic bits to make your car eligible for 7500 BidenBucks? I know my answer.
Yes, Treasury can select the rules. However...I am not arguing. I want to see where the [golden] $hit happened. My first thought was that maybe it was done in Congress, but they clearly left it up to the regulators to decide. So, it is in the power of the IRS to decide what is an SUV. By some definitions it would be a vehicle on a truck frame denying everything but some possible electric Tahoe and Hummer EV any chance for a tax credit. They (the IRS) used some EPA definitions and mostly followed the letter of the law with several prominent exceptions of Escape PHEV and VW ID.4 (and I am not sure about Audi Q5 PHEV; does it really have over 8 inch clearance? Maybe I should buy one now). The spirit of the law would tell me that Ford Mach-E should definitely get no lesser tax credit than Ford Escape PHEV or Audi Q5 PHEV.
P.S.: See, I did not have a single reference to Tesla here.
The IRS did not make the current list of vehicles, they only aggregated the lists submitted by the manufacturers.
The EPA definitions are based on the only codified definitions of SUV, pickup truck, and can I have found.
Is there a CFR section with the body on frame definition?
EPA has subclasses of SUV and truck , but those are internal and don't change the base definition.
I'm not sure if this was mentioned in this thread, but if you check out DOT's initial assessment of the Model Y from 2020, it actually refers to the Model Y as a MPV (not a SUV.) What I dont know is if this is a self-classification (from Tesla), or by the NHTSA; it could also be unofficial for all I know. The initial press release from the Treasury department mentioned they were working with the DOE, DOT, and other orgs, to hone the rules, so I wouldnt be surprised if some implementation of the DOT's interpretation took precedence.
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In the past, the $7,500 credit was called the SUV loophole, but really defined by vehicles with over a 6,000lb Gross Vehicle Weight. The Model X qualified. Perhaps that is what the regulators use as a guideline as well.
Seems like our Govt has tried to carve out Tesla offerings, while favoring Union labor.
Seems like our Govt has tried to carve out Tesla offerings, while favoring Union labor.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Hardly. Tesla did not exist when these rules were promulgated. If you had said that rules decades in the making favored GM/Ford/Dodge monster vehicles, you would be on firmer ground.
And it was not only the Hummer loophole that Republicans were so happy about. The whole SUV/truck category was made up as a way for Detroit to escape pollution regulation. Arguing whether the Model Y is an SUV is to accept the ridiculous. I think the much more tenuous (Read: moronic) decision embedded in the IRA is that pollution carve-outs should have subsidy protections.
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IRS JUST changed to EPA definition. expect price increases. Seriously lock in your order TODAY if you on the fence. The artifical 55k limit is GONE
www.autonews.com
Treasury modifies vehicle classifications in EV tax credit after industry pushback
The department said it will now use the consumer-facing EPA Fuel Economy Label standard to determine whether a vehicle is a sedan, SUV, pickup or van instead of using EPA corporate average fuel economy, or CAFE, standards.
www.autonews.com
So..., MYP under $50k!!!IRS JUST changed to EPA definition. expect price increases. Seriously lock in your order TODAY if you on the fence. The artifical 55k limit is GONE
Treasury modifies vehicle classifications in EV tax credit after industry pushback
The department said it will now use the consumer-facing EPA Fuel Economy Label standard to determine whether a vehicle is a sedan, SUV, pickup or van instead of using EPA corporate average fuel economy, or CAFE, standards.
Assuming they don't jack up the price of the MYP now the artifical 55k limit is gone. LOCK in the price now if u on the fence!!
I agree, price increases are definitely on the way! I wish they would have addressed the questions about the March deadline (how long the full $7,500 may be available). Here is another article: Tesla Model Y's complete lineup now qualifies for EV tax credits through Inflation Reduction ActIRS JUST changed to EPA definition. expect price increases. Seriously lock in your order TODAY if you on the fence. The artifical 55k limit is GONE
Treasury modifies vehicle classifications in EV tax credit after industry pushback
The department said it will now use the consumer-facing EPA Fuel Economy Label standard to determine whether a vehicle is a sedan, SUV, pickup or van instead of using EPA corporate average fuel economy, or CAFE, standards.
Same Boat...........
LR with 20 so difference is another 2K..................
Anyone wanna buy a LR with 32 miles? LOL
Considering less-than-a-month delivery time, it is not a very long price lock. Unfortunately, I've got my MY in summer last year (I believe it was at a starting price of $56,990 in that time) and we have a house-full of Teslas. Let's hope the CT will come out soon, will come out good, and the IRS will be good. Fingers crossed.
but did not Tesla say price decreases were due to "noramalization of supply chain" and has nothing to do with IRS tax credits??
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