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Is 30 amps enough for charging? (Condo Owner)

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by jrk123, Apr 8, 2016.

  1. jrk123

    jrk123 Member

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    Hi All,

    I have been looking into the charging options for my Telsa in advance (I know it's early, but I have to budget everything!)

    I live in a condo and have 200 amp service - unfortunately, everything in my condo is run by electric (heat pump, water heater, stove, etc). The first electrician I spoke with said the best he could do is to provide a 30 amp outlet and the only way I could do more is to go to 400 amp service which will require dealing with my homeowner association - He is advising me against the hassle.

    My questions are -
    1) Is it worth the expense to increase the service to 400 amps for a Nema 15-50 connector or 80 Amp Tesla wall charger?
    2) Has anyone dealt with this situation with a condo association?

    Thanks!
     
  2. ucmndd

    ucmndd Member

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    A 50 amp circuit (delivering 40 amps for charging) will give you about 30 miles of range per hour of charge.

    A 30 amp circuit, delivering 24 amps for charging, will give you about 18 miles per hour of charge.

    So an 8 hour overnight charge would give you 144 miles of range. I suppose the question becomes, is that enough for you?
     
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  3. eloder

    eloder Member

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    30 amp in my opinion is perfectly fine. With such a charger, you'd have more than fully deplete your range within one day and need a rapid turn-around charge time, all while local, to need a higher charging speed. A 30 amp charger will nearly fully replenish your car's charge overnight.

    A lot of EV drivers can make due with level one charging--12 amps at 110 volts, which is turtle speed but still recharges more than most Americans' daily commuting mileage overnight. The only reason I have a 30 amp charger with my Leaf, is because my battery is only 60-100 miles so a mid-day charge for local trips does become necessary at times. I don't expect that same issue with my 170+ mile (worst case winter scenario) Tesla.
     
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  4. Darryl

    Darryl ModelXTracker.com Co-Adm

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    It all depends on how fast you want to charge and how depleted the battery is. It would be ok for a Volt or Leaf or BMW i3 with lower capacity batteries. I would personally say a minimum is 240 volt 50 amp. I use a 240 Volt 100 amp charger as I always like to keep a fully charged battery. Of course you don't charge to 100% as it is not good for the battery and normally only charge to 80%.
     
  5. Zoomit

    Zoomit Part 3 Awaiter

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    #5 Zoomit, Apr 8, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2016
    The classic use case is you return late Sunday from a long weekend trip and need to recharge to get to work on Monday morning. In 6-8 hours can you add enough juice back to the car to be safe for your commute? Obviously it depends on your commute, but generally you can get by while charging at even as low as 16 Amps (240V).

    Be careful comparing the needs of a Tesla against sub 100-mi BEVs. With a larger battery, your tendency to use it all up will be less. So for typical, day-to-day use and overnight charging you can get away with a SLOWER charge rate.
     
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  6. ChrisC

    ChrisC see signature

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    The short answer is yes.

    The rule of thumb is that you get 1 mile of range/hour per 1 Amp of Level 2 charging. So a Level 2 EVSE on a 30 Amp circuit gives you 24 Amps actually delivered to the car (30 x 0.80 = 24 due to 80% derating), which means about 24 miles of range per hour.

    Someone said above that you'd get only 18 miles of range from that 24 Amps, but that's for a big, heavy Model S. Smaller cars (Leaf, Volt, BMW i3) are more efficient and the 1/1 rule above holds. And a Model 3 in 2018 will likely too.

    So yeah a 30 Amp circuit is fine. The conspicuous consumers in this forum like to think they need an 80 Amp HPWC, but they don't.
     
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  7. SageBrush

    SageBrush Active Member

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    power (watts) = volts * amps
    kilowatts (kw) = watts / 1000

    One kW for one hour gives ~ 3 miles of range
     
  8. jchau

    jchau Member

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    I have a 30 amp dryer outlet that I am planning on using for the model 3. I've seen the adapters that are sold on the tesla website, but I'm not sure which is the correct adapter. My dryer outlet is a 3 prong outlet. Is using the dryer outlet as simple as buying the correct adapter?
     
  9. Zoomit

    Zoomit Part 3 Awaiter

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    I should add that I have a friend that just got a LEAF (24 kWh) and I recommended the opposite of what I said above. I recommended he get the most powerful EVSE his car will support, which is charging at 30A and requires adding a circuit to his garage. He needs the "fast" charge rate because of the smaller battery size. He'll be returning home with a low battery much more frequently than if he had a 215-mi car such as the Model 3.
     
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  10. shrspeedblade

    shrspeedblade Member

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    How long is your commute?
    I'm still charging my volt on 120v 12amp with a 65 mile roundtrip commute. There are a lot of chargers out there now, too.
    You'll be fine unless you drive something like 150+ miles a day.
     
  11. S'toon

    S'toon Knows where his towel is

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    Yes...and knowing how much current the circuit has. If I recall correctly the 3 prong dryers have 30A, so you can charge at 24A. Continuous charging is 80% of amps of the circuit.
     
  12. linkster

    linkster Member

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    #12 linkster, Apr 8, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2016
    1) probably unnecessary, but depends on your commute, if you have charging at work, and "turn around time" required
    2) I haven't


    3) I have been charging with the supplied UMC on a 30A circuit (24A) for over 3 years/+60,000 miles with 80 and 160-mile commutes without work charging
    4) I suspect that the Model 3 will charge ~20 miles/hr @24A due to its more efficient motor, lighter GVW, and reduced drag over big brother S/X
    5) it's always a good idea to get info/quotes from 3 electricians IMO


    Great that you are planning ahead

    Good-luck!

    btw, I would strongly suggest you contact Tesla and ask them to re-issue the UMC NEMA 10-30 and 14-30s and that they offer 6-20 and 6-30 adapters as there will be crushing demand for these in condos, town-condos, and town homes IMO
     
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  13. Zoomit

    Zoomit Part 3 Awaiter

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    So true. There's a lot of talk about charging rates while on the road, but that's different than the typical needs at home, where you're just fine with the car sitting and charging for 8 or more hours.
     
  14. jrk123

    jrk123 Member

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    Thanks everyone for the replies.

    My daily commute will not exceed 50-60 miles total so it sounds like the 30 Amp circuit will be fine. I was concerned because I will also be doing several long trips a year (~350 miles one way MA to PA) and was worried about charging for work when I return.

    My last questions:
    1) Any specific outlet I should request from the electrician?
    2) Can I buy an extra cable from Tesla or should I get it from another place? (I prefer to keep the charging cable connected at home and have one in the car for travel charging).

    Thanks again for all the advice!
     
  15. silentsnow31802

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    I believe I have the same dryer plug your talking about. I bought the item below and it works great. Very good build quality. I was able to charge at 24A with no problem.

    Amazon.com : Conntek 30-Amp NEMA 10-30P Dryer Plug to 50-Amp Electric Vehicle Adapter Cord for Tesla : Sports & Outdoors
     
  16. S'toon

    S'toon Knows where his towel is

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    [​IMG]
    Here's a chart of the common types of plugs. Tesla sells some adapters, and you can buy adapters for the other plugs online. You can buy a compatible cable online as well.

    Just do a search for EVSE and there are various stores online that sell EV charging solutions, cables that just plug into the outlet, adapters, etc. Amazon sells a bunch of stuff as well.
     
  17. eye.surgeon

    eye.surgeon Member

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    It's plenty. I turn my charger down to 32A anyways, it's more than I need.
     
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  18. FlatSix911

    FlatSix911 918 Hybrid

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    Here is a quick reference guide from Tesla

    Tesla plugs.jpg
     
  19. linkster

    linkster Member

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    #19 linkster, Apr 8, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2016
    True that!!!

    It is most likely a NEMA 10-30 which Tesla has discontinued but most likely can be sourced if you're willing to call around to several service centers.

    1)You may be able to find a discontinued UMC 14-30 adapter by calling around to several Tesla service centers. Provided that you can source this prized UMC adapter, have your electrician install the corresponding NEMA 14-30 outlet. If you can't find one immediately, I would continually check the forum classifieds and eBay before going the UMC 6-15 adapter (but utilizing the more common 6-20 outlet) route which will provide ~10mph charge rate
    2) Yes, you can purchase a spare UMC cable at a service center sans carrying bag and adapters to save some money.

    personally, if I couldn't locate a Tesla UMC 14-30 adapter, I would still have an electrician pull 30A 4-wire so that I could easily upgrade my 6-15 set-up to a 14-30 at a later date should Tesla re-issue this wonderful adapter.
     
  20. S'toon

    S'toon Knows where his towel is

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    You don't have to buy the Tesla UMC cable, or the Tesla 14-30 adapters. There are third parties that sell compatible cables and adapters as well.
     

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