Is Tesla Y better than other all electric SUVs?

[Dennisis]

Stock market isn’t exactly a great barometer right now, to be fair. Tesla is down almost 60% YTD, that tends to happen in a recession.

And the Mercedes deal? And all the other headwinds? Too soon…

 

[Eto Demerzel]

The difference is Tesla is now actually making money on each car they sell AFAIK vs Rivian is still losing money on every car they sell. That's why Rivian has started to de-content their cars.

Nobody besides Tesla is making money on EV's. Tesla is just so far ahead in manufacturing and technology. If they only invested back into improving quality quarter over quarter... we would have vault like Y's and 3's running around.
The best any manufacturer is doing is maybe 5% per unit, maybe nothing. Tesla's profit margin is insane. Bentley and Ferrari dream of those numbers. I don't think GM is making anything on the Bolt, and they've had that out forever. But, they also made it a killer value too...

I'm amazed at the quality Rivian put into their cars. In all honesty, for a $85k starting price, they should decontent! I'm blown away at the level of finish they put into them.

 

[boulder.dude]

The difference is Tesla is now actually making money on each car they sell AFAIK vs Rivian is still losing money on every car they sell. That's why Rivian has started to de-content their cars.

Tesla is only de-contenting their cars to increase profits.

 

[TheLex]

Tesla is only de-contenting their cars to increase profits.

Yeah, that move to remove the ultrasonic sensors saved them something like $125/car.

 

[tangible1]

Yeah, that move to remove the ultrasonic sensors saved them something like $125/car.

in direct costs, yes, it's minor. but it's not the point.
if you listen to the guy who runs the system SW and AI development teams, it saves quite a lot more than that. it simplifies the system.
the integration of all the sensor types, keeping up with the component variations from the multiple suppliers of each, all have a cumulative impact.
those sensors aren't static devices. like all tech, they constantly evolve functionally, if not physically.
the complexity of keeping track of necessary SW changes, production changes, the combinations and permutations of same, are VERY costly.

 

[TheLex]

in direct costs, yes, it's minor. but it's not the point.
if you listen to the guy who runs the system SW and AI development teams, it saves quite a lot more than that. it simplifies the system.
the integration of all the sensor types, keeping up with the component variations from the multiple suppliers of each, all have a cumulative impact.
those sensors aren't static devices. like all tech, they constantly evolve functionally, if not physically.
the complexity of keeping track of necessary SW changes, production changes, the combinations and permutations of same, are VERY costly.

I get that. But there are a LOT of complaints about the Vision based parking distance control now. I'd hate to rely on Vision while parking in a dark area. One guy on FB just posted how his car ran into a snow bank while parking. Not sure how he failed to judge the distance while parking, but there it is.

 

[Ogre]

Hmm. I’m surprised, any links to this? That Kia can’t crack what BMW and Land Rover can would surprise me greatly. (I quote those two as the manufacturers that I’ve used ACC/lane keep in extensively enough to form an opinion).

Since Land Rover doesn’t make an EV and BMWs EVs are pretty mediocre and overpriced I don’t think they really matter in this conversation.

 

[tangible1]

I get that. But there are a LOT of complaints about the Vision based parking distance control now. I'd hate to rely on Vision while parking in a dark area. One guy on FB just posted how his car ran into a snow bank while parking. Not sure how he failed to judge the distance while parking, but there it is.

most of the complaints I've seen are about fear of change.
and honestly, the guy who hit the snowbank....well.....that's on him.
depth perception is necessary. although I'll give you that on a MY there's no front hood to see and aid judgement; it does make it more difficult.

 

[Eto Demerzel]

I saw a spy photo of a camo next get M3, with conjecture there will be cameras in the headlights (adding two more cameras)
The location would make sense. It's possible this is the way they will move forward with teslavision.

But if that is the case, they would have to go back and retrofit current cars with new headlight modules since that ability was promised and a "temporary disabled" feature. Anyway, more speculation for the pile...

 

[MashinBenzin]

LOL

The league of "Yet to be shipped", comes with unobtanium wheels and infinite range! It's in the queue of other EVs delayed 18+ months right next to the Cybertruck.


Links to actual experience behind the wheel?

You stated lots of manufacturers have issues with lane keeping not working. Professional reviewers would have found this. I’ve read nothing like this in years, despite consuming a ton of automotive information. (Such as knowing the R1T and R1S production ramp ups in some detail rather than believing the R1S did not exist.)

 

[MashinBenzin]

Since Land Rover doesn’t make an EV and BMWs EVs are pretty mediocre and overpriced I don’t think they really matter in this conversation.

You’re desperate aren’t you? Do tell me how drivetrain impacts on ACC and lane keeping technology. You slated Kia and have failed to provide evidence of something that reviewers would be talking about, if there was any truth in your assertion.

FWIW I drive a Land Rover PHEV in EV mode with the autopilot-type systems working perfectly in 2018. When I say perfectly, I simply mean significantly better than my 2022 Model Y.

 

[TheLex]

most of the complaints I've seen are about fear of change.
and honestly, the guy who hit the snowbank....well.....that's on him.
depth perception is necessary. although I'll give you that on a MY there's no front hood to see and aid judgement; it does make it more difficult.

Yeah that guy is a bit of a doofus for not even realizing the snow bank was there. I'm glad my 2022 has the USS though. Let's see what Tesla does with future updates. It sounds like they're going to be either augmenting the Vision cameras or adding back some sensors. So far I'm happy with my parking distance sensors. Combined with the cameras, it makes parking fairly easy. The only feature I wish it had that's missing is rear cross traffic control. My Subie has that and it's been a saver the few times some soccer mom decided the parking aisle was actually a Formula 1 racetrack.

 

[Tha_Ape]

We should collectively agree to strike the phrase "real world" from vehicle range discussions. Everyone seems to have a different definition of "real world," depending on what is important to them. There many very different real world use cases that folks could apply, and significance depends highly on every individual:

1. Continuous highway driving
2. Stop-and-go traffic driving
3. Suburban commuter driving

EVs get killed in continuous highway driving compared to their stated ranges. And the big winners in that category are the most aerodynamic.

EVs flourish in stop-and-go and suburban driving. In those cases, I would expect the smaller and lighter cars to come closer to their EPA ratings, if not exceed them. In my case, I will never-to-rarely road trip my car, so I truly do not care what its continuous highway driving range is. So, I care more about the urban and suburban driving ranges.

Continously highway driving is where range matters. No one cares about stop- and-go and driving around town because you likely charge at home.

People care about how often, and for how long they need to stop on a long trip.

 

[exxxviii]

Continously highway driving is where range matters. No one cares about stop- and-go and driving around town because you likely charge at home.

See, that's the problem. Your reply is only about you and your perception. Many others truly don't care, because they have no plans to road trip their car.

The origin of this thread branch was doing away with the term "real world," because each person defines it very differently. In my case (and everyone else I know who owns a Tesla), their real world range is suburban short-hop driving. That is not hyperbole. Your "real world" perception is not necessarily the same as anyone else's.

But just to be clear, 70 MPH highway driving an EV is basically the same for every EV... it is around 80% to 90% percent of EPA range, depending on how aerodynamic the car is. The crazy outlier is the Taycan that significantly exceeds its EPA rating. The Taycan is very aerodynamic, but it is not magic. My gut on that one is that they sandbagged EPA. The cases where highway range is a higher percentage of EPA also highlight attributes of the car that would drive a low EPA, like heavy cars, bad regen, bad battery management, etc.

Sounds like you are perfect for a Lucid Air Dream Edition. That one is very aero and has a massive battery.

 

[gt2690b]

See, that's the problem. Your reply is only about you and your perception. Many others truly don't care, because they have no plans to road trip their car.

The origin of this thread branch was doing away with the term "real world," because each person defines it very differently. In my case (and everyone else I know who owns a Tesla), their real world range is suburban short-hop driving. That is not hyperbole. Your "real world" perception is not necessarily the same as anyone else's.

But just to be clear, 70 MPH highway driving an EV is basically the same for every EV... it is around 80% to 90% percent of EPA range, depending on how aerodynamic the car is. The crazy outlier is the Taycan that significantly exceeds its EPA rating. The Taycan is very aerodynamic, but it is not magic. My gut on that one is that they sandbagged EPA. The cases where highway range is a higher percentage of EPA also highlight attributes of the car that would drive a low EPA, like heavy cars, bad regen, bad battery management, etc.

Sounds like you are perfect for a Lucid Air Dream Edition. That one is very aero and has a massive battery.

Have you checked out the Bjorn 1000km challenge? The results are drastically different for many EVs out there... It is a far cry from "basically 80 to 90 percent EPA estimate"... He does the challenge because millions of people care.. you're the only person I've read that cares about stop and go range... Seems mute when you charge at home everyday

Tesla Model 3 Performance Sets New Record In Bjørn's 1,000 Km Challenge

The latest 2022 Tesla Model 3 Performance has been recently tested in Bjørn Nyland's 1,000 km challenge, setting a new all-time EV record.

insideevs.com

 

[exxxviii]

Have you checked out the Bjorn 1000km challenge? The results are drastically different for many EVs out there... It is a far cry from "basically 80 to 90 percent EPA estimate"... He does the challenge because millions of people care.. you're the only person I've read that cares about stop and go range... Seems mute when you charge at home everyday

Yes, and that is a great, holistic test. But it represents your view of what is important to you. It is not representative of every one of the millions of people who shop and own EVs. Seems a bit presumptuous to assume that your view is aligned with millions of people, doesn't it?

The point is that everyone has an individual viewpoint of what is important in their EV range. And it is ridiculous to assume that highway range represents the one world view that everyone should use. And yes, highway range pretty much distills down to aerodynamics and battery size, and 70 MPH range comes in at 80% to 90% of EPA range for a whole lot of cars. Except Taycan, which is well over 100%.

And emphatically YES; highway range is moot when you charge at home everyday. That is why it is not representative of everyone's real world.

P.S. I probably should have said 80% to 95%, after looking again at the data. The Lucid Air DE is 96%.

 

[gt2690b]

Yes, and that is a great, holistic test. But it represents your view of what is important to you. It is not representative of every one of the millions of people who shop and own EVs. Seems a bit presumptuous to assume that your view is aligned with millions of people, doesn't it?

The point is that everyone has an individual viewpoint of what is important in their EV range. And it is ridiculous to assume that highway range represents the one world view that everyone should use. And yes, highway range pretty much distills down to aerodynamics and battery size, and 70 MPH range comes in at 80% to 90% of EPA range for a whole lot of cars. Except Taycan, which is well over 100%.

And emphatically YES; highway range is moot when you charge at home everyday. That is why it is not representative of everyone's real world.

P.S. I probably should have said 80% to 95%, after looking again at the data. The Lucid Air DE is 96%.

You could have saved alot of money and gotten a leaf

 

[howardnj]

I will say that after taking a 1100 mile trip from NorCal to SoCal and back again over Thanksgiving, I've grown to love my MY even more. The Supercharger experience is just a game changer. Even though we came back on the Saturday after Thanksgiving, and I-5 was bumper to bumper traffic much of the way, it was not difficult to find a Supercharger that had an open slot. I did end up at a smaller station once and I waited about 5 min behind another MY, and then figured that it'd be a long wait at that station. So I got back on the freeway and headed out to the next station, which wasn't very far away and turned out to be a much bigger station with 250 kWh chargers. So my charging there was superfast.

We were going on a cruise so each of the 5 members of our family had a carry-on roller bag, backpacks for each person, and I had a suit bag. All of that fit without even filling the frunk. There's an amazing amount of storage in the MY.

The Autopilot (adaptive cruise) worked ok for the most part. It did phantom brake me once going over a crest, but it wasn't a full on emergency brake down to zero. As others have posted, the vision system is very sensitive to traffic in the next lane. I had a guy in the lane to my right try to change into my lane but he was too close and backed off. The car saw that as a threat and immediately cut the speed pretty hard, but as soon as the butt of his car was back in his lane, the AP resumed our original speed.

Lane centering worked well. It was rock solid all the way though. The only thing is you have to basically use both hands on the wheel so enough torque is being applied otherwise the system will click off after a few warnings. One handed driving with lane centering is more difficult because it gets kind of tiring having to apply torque to the wheel so the feature doesn't click off.

We loved the Netflix and Hulu, and we used Hulu to catch part of a Warriors game while we were waiting at a Supercharger. The Tesla streaming service was awesome. It has so many music options that unlike previous trips, I no longer had to preload a memory stick or my iPhone with a bunch of music before the trip. The streaming service had every kind of music we wanted to listed to.

The one downside is the navigation system. Tesla's nav is just inferior to Google Maps i.e. Apple CarPlay. Tesla nav is slower and not as predictive. While both Apple and Google maps will tell you which lane to be in and give you ample warning before an exit, Tesla nav doesn't give you much of a warning and doesn't really tell you which lane is best to be in. Also I wouldn't mind if there was a way to increase the font size of the screen a bit. It would be easier for us older folks to read.

Oher than that, I'm really loving the car. There are other drawbacks of course, but as a transportation device, it's a great piece of work. Charge at home and go. On the road, charge at the Supercharger and go. It makes traveling easy so long as there are Superchargers around. The experience at CCS chargers is vastly different. I hope Elon never opens up the Superchargers to other makes.

I purchased the CC1 adapter because I was so nervous for my first long distance drive from NJ to Florida. What I discovered is the FPL 350kwh Superchargers are faster than the 250kwh Tesla Superchargers and at $0.30 kwh are also cheaper.

 

[Dennisis]

I purchased the CC1 adapter because I was so nervous for my first long distance drive from NJ to Florida. What I discovered is the FPL 350kwh Superchargers are faster than the 250kwh Tesla Superchargers and at $0.30 kwh are also cheaper.

The problem is there are many fewer places to use CCS adapters - locations are often harder to get to and often not working. I bought the adapter too but had to go out of my way to locate a charging spot just to do a trial run and make sure it worked. By the time I got into position and started charger I had negated any charging speed advantage. Have take two long trips since and the adapter still waits patiently in the OEM box in my frunk just in case. And if I'm traveling I'm not worried about saving a couple of bucks on charging - just let me do my business and get back on the road.

 

[gt2690b]

The problem is there are many fewer places to use CCS adapters - locations are often harder to get to and often not working. I bought the adapter too but had to go out of my way to locate a charging spot just to do a trial run and make sure it worked. By the time I got into position and started charger I had negated any charging speed advantage. Have take two long trips since and the adapter still waits patiently in the OEM box in my frunk just in case. And if I'm traveling I'm not worried about saving a couple of bucks on charging - just let me do my business and get back on the road.

yeah its going to take numerous trips and some luck to make up the $300 cost of the adapter.. that said a little piece of mind can go a long way