Launch is Imminent

[Earl]

stainless steels is heavier and those castings aren't particularly thin and lightweight either.

I think you're missing the reason they went with the Stainless Steel exoskeleton. It is stronger AND lighter than conventional body on frame design.
It wasn't for the appearance.

 

[Knightshade]

Robo needs perfected FSD

True, and they're not remotely close to that.

, govt approval

False. They're legal in a bunch of US states, right now- Typically you need just tell the state "Our cars are safe and follow traffic rules, TRUST US BRO- and we have insurance" and you can start operation immediately. Nobody from the government needs to "approve" anything special.

and a point of sale app or overlay for us to rent out our vehicles

This is, by about 100,000,000 miles, the least hard part of that entire business model- to the point it's not really worth listing as an obstacle.


So really the only thing holding back Tesla robotaxis is FSD isn't remotely capable, or close to being capable, of L4 or L5 operation.

 

[ThomasD]

I visited the Rivian Forum for the first time today. Owners are towing 8 to 11,000 lb Trailers and I didn't see any complaints about range.

 

[Cal1]

Agree. The CT will be super expensive to ensure with stainless body due to how much repairs will cost.

Oh come on... we all know that that any car hitting a CT will simply ounce off. Those super expensive costs will be for the other guy!

 

[texas_star_TM3]

I visited the Rivian Forum for the first time today. Owners are towing 8 to 11,000 lb Trailers and I didn't see any complaints about range.

because most understand that while towing that much you get ~50% (or worse - pending aerodynamics of what you tow and how fast) of the stated vehicle range. once that's clear you will be fine.

EV trucks on the market with 300 miles to 320 miles are good to tow that much for ~150 miles... good enough to tow a big boat to the lake for an hour and back for another hour. not so bueno for towing a heavy horse trailer 600 miles... unless you are good taking 3 charging stops at ~30 min each...

 

[TessP100D]

I visited the Rivian Forum for the first time today. Owners are towing 8 to 11,000 lb Trailers and I didn't see any complaints about range.

Rivian’s range when towing is cut by 50%

50%

 

[texas_star_TM3]

True, and they're not remotely close to that.



False. They're legal in a bunch of US states, right now- Typically you need just tell the state "Our cars are safe and follow traffic rules, TRUST US BRO- and we have insurance" and you can start operation immediately. Nobody from the government needs to "approve" anything special.




This is, by about 100,000,000 miles, the least hard part of that entire business model- to the point it's not really worth listing as an obstacle.


So really the only thing holding back Tesla robotaxis is FSD isn't remotely capable, or close to being capable, of L4 or L5 operation.

aaah... according to this article only 7 out of 50 states allow driverless cars... which by definition a robotaxi would be. so yeah... states have a say if you unleash your driverless robotaxi fleet on them...

Are Autonomous Self-Driving Vehicles Legal in My State?

With auto manufacturers developing fully autonomous, self-driving/driverless vehicles, only some states have started to legislate their use.

www.motortrend.com

 

[FastEddieB]

Rivian’s range when towing is cut by 50%

50%

Kinda physics, right?

Our Ford Flex get about 22 mpg unladen. Towing a travel trailer or enclosed utility trailer drops it to about 11 mpg. I swear I can almost see the gas gauge moving towards E as I drive.

 

[kpanda17]

Gas mileage cut in 1/2 is same as range cut in 1/2

 

[uscbucsfan]

Kinda physics, right?

Our Ford Flex get about 22 mpg unladen. Towing a travel trailer or enclosed utility trailer drops it to about 11 mpg. I swear I can almost see the gas gauge moving towards E as I drive.

Right. All ICE vehicles and BEVs lose range when towing, but the difference is that you can buy ICE vehicles with much bigger tanks.

My F150 diesel had a 36 gallon tank that went from 24-30 mpg to 12-14 when towing my boat, but I could go between 400-450 miles before fueling.

Since EVs are so efficient, drag impacts them even more...so a CT towing a large boat or, even worse, a giant box trailer will get hit even more and with the much smaller "tank". At highway speeds 350 can easily turn into 120 as the Ford Lightning has shown.

Some also postulate that the CT's EPA range will benefit from have a better drag coefficient than something like the F150, but also will take a range hit worse with a high drag tow.

For me a 350 mile CT likely wouldn't work just as the Lightning doesn't work for what I need. Everyone has their own use cases.

 

[Kevy Baby]

Americans large large cars that sit far off the ground. Sales people call that "command seating position". Thus, SUVs and Trucks continue to sell well.
Not because they go off-road or can tow, but because they are big and high off the ground. Though that comes at the expense of handling and efficiency, folks still flock to that form function.

Good for Tesla for targeting that market.
But it certainly does not exist because those vehicles actually go off-road or actually tow.
It's a poser market, and Tesla is cashing in on that fad.

Ah, the old "I don't need/want it, so anyone else who claims to need/want it is wrong."

My wife currently drives a Toyota Sequoia. For daily driving, she doesn't need the capacity. BUT she is much more comfortable and feels much more safe sitting higher up off the ground. And I know she is not the only one who feels that way.

So, start taking into consideration that others may think differently than you.

 

[afadeev]

Ah, the old "I don't need/want it, so anyone else who claims to need/want it is wrong."

You totally misread my post, oh well.

My wife currently drives a Toyota Sequoia. For daily driving, she doesn't need the capacity. BUT she is much more comfortable and feels much more safe sitting higher up off the ground. And I know she is not the only one who feels that way.

Duah - thanks for making my point!
Ironically, while totally missing it ...

So, start taking into consideration that others may think differently than you.

How do you know that I think any differently than you?
I just recognize and accept reality for what it is.
That's all.

 

[Knightshade]

aaah... according to this article only 7 out of 50 states allow driverless cars...

Literally from your own source:

Right now, there are 21 states that have laws allowing for the deployment of autonomous vehicles-

A few have weird quirks like IF you seat someone behind the wheel they must be licensed- but if nobody is sitting there that's fine...but all of that misses the actual point you were replying to....

Point being, if Tesla had a working robotaxi today they could deploy it today without "waiting for approval" from anybody to a pretty significant portion of the current US population.

So the only thing holding back Tesla robotaxis is the fact Tesla doesn't actually have them.... the BUT THE REGULATORS thing is 100% a red herring.



As really is the hand wringing about towing range on the truck.

Roughly 75% of truck owners essentially never tow anything.

Of the 25% who do, many tow less than 50 miles (to a nearby lake, or to nearby job sites).


So it'd be years and years of cybertruck production before they ran out of buyers due to any towing range concerns.

 

[kpanda17]

We cannot forget about insurance buy in, even with commercial insurance
New territory for them and you know they want the deck/$ stacked toward them
I can’t get Tesla Insurance in my state yet, but will be interesting how Tesla Insirance handles insuring robotaxis
Tesla Insurance might have been Elons long game all along, could be the only game in town for the short term and force coverage adoption by the industry

 

[uscbucsfan]

As really is the hand wringing about towing range on the truck.

Roughly 75% of truck owners essentially never tow anything.

Of the 25% who do, many tow less than 50 miles (to a nearby lake, or to nearby job sites).


So it'd be years and years of cybertruck production before they ran out of buyers due to any towing range concerns.

It's a truck. People buy them with the idea to haul and tow, even if they rarely do.

A 350 mile range, quad motor CT has it's market, absolutely, especially if the price is low.

That isn't disrupting the truck market though.

The biggest qualms of Rivian and Lightning are price and range. And there's people that don't care about either, but neither of those trucks in their current form will ever sell 250k+ a year. There's not a market for that.

 

[kabin]

Even $10k cheaper, the F150 EV still feels a bit overpriced given the 240 mile EPA estimated range. Ford was in a hurry to build an EV truck. Maybe they will do their homework for gen 2.

 

[Knightshade]

It's a truck. People buy them with the idea to haul and tow, even if they rarely do.

A 350 mile range, quad motor CT has it's market, absolutely, especially if the price is low.

That isn't disrupting the truck market though.

The biggest qualms of Rivian and Lightning are price and range. And there's people that don't care about either, but neither of those trucks in their current form will ever sell 250k+ a year. There's not a market for that.

Was a $50-60,000 smallish SUV disrupting the market?

I ask because it's currently the best selling vehicle in the world.


Full sized truck sales are roughly 2 million a year in the US using 2022 numbers.

Average selling price was about $59,000 in the same period.

Tesla only needs just over 12% of that market for 250k a year.

And there are 4 fricken gas stations on every corner.
perhaps in 25 years there will be 4 charging stations on every corner, pull through types too.

until then, Range is King.

This is the same garbage people gave about why nobody would buy Teslas cars.

>4 million Tesla cars sold later, it turns out people just charge at home, and there's way more than enough superchargers for the rare long trip.

 

[TessP100D]

Right. All ICE vehicles and BEVs lose range when towing, but the difference is that you can buy ICE vehicles with much bigger tanks.

My F150 diesel had a 36 gallon tank that went from 24-30 mpg to 12-14 when towing my boat, but I could go between 400-450 miles before fueling.

Since EVs are so efficient, drag impacts them even more...so a CT towing a large boat or, even worse, a giant box trailer will get hit even more and with the much smaller "tank". At highway speeds 350 can easily turn into 120 as the Ford Lightning has shown.

Some also postulate that the CT's EPA range will benefit from have a better drag coefficient than something like the F150, but also will take a range hit worse with a high drag tow.

For me a 350 mile CT likely wouldn't work just as the Lightning doesn't work for what I need. Everyone has their own use cases.

And there are 4 fricken gas stations on every corner.
perhaps in 25 years there will be 4 charging stations on every corner, pull through types too.

until then, Range is King.

 

[uscbucsfan]

Was a $50-60,000 smallish SUV disrupting the market?

I ask because it's currently the best selling vehicle in the world.


Full sized truck sales are roughly 2 million a year in the US using 2022 numbers.

Average selling price was about $59,000 in the same period.

Tesla only needs just over 12% of that market for 250k a year.

Completely different demographic.

Even before Tesla announced the MY everyone said they'd kill with a crossover. It's the exact car you'd expect to take off.

If the CT is super cheap and/or delivers on range, it'll do fine..even if people hate the looks. If it's in between like all the other BEV trucks, it will sell more than them, but take over like the MY did/is.

 

[kpanda17]

I agree
CT will disrupt because:
the look is radical which Tesla is opening our minds to, I did not like the MY look at first and now it’s #1
The price vs included base functions will be compelling (2x motor/4x4, 6.5’ bed, range, cab size, air suspension, etc)
The range per price will be great, 350 and up