Zcd1
Active Member
You probably should have test driven the car before you bought it.
If you did test drive it, you probably should have paid closer attention.
Better sell it now and cut your losses.
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M3P - Who switched from a (true) sports car?
- Thread starter drew4392
- Start date
You probably should have test driven the car before you bought it.
If you did test drive it, you probably should have paid closer attention.
Better sell it now and cut your losses.
MasterC17
Active Member
Nothing @MountainPass makes has introduced any additional NVH that would be noticeable to the driver in 99% of situations.
I've purchased tons of aftermarket parts (too many) from several different vendors. The reason I've been advocating for MPP's products so strongly the last several months is because they are the only one's who seem to be genuinely concerned about NVH and all of their products are top-notch quality and it is clear they thought things out and didn't just build the part like it was an ICE vehicle. If you want to solve your concern, buy front and rear camber arms and coilovers from MPP. Honestly, even just the coilovers would probably make you happy.
You have to remember the Model 3 was not designed to be an enthusiast vehicle, it was catered to the 90% of drivers who want to feel like they are riding in a "comfy, luxurious vehicle" and would put comfort far higher up the list than steering feel. That's why aftermarket exists.
Let's be honest - NVH can be noticed. Not like those harder bushings (and solid aluminum FUCA instead of fiberglass infused plastic) transfer road noise to the chassis to the same extent - they are harder and you can hear it, it's just not horrible difference almost for anyone.
I have the sports coilover kit + camber arms plus rear Tow-in arms plus traction and trailing arms. I do not notice nor did I measure increased noise. When I measured noise on the highway at 75 I got the exact same value on the exact same stretch of road. I do notice however a vast Improvement in steering feel, transient response, and ability to handle very high lateral acceleration without drama or some of the previous twitchiness, particularly coming from the rear. I would describe it as a transformation in Dynamics without any increase in noise vibration or harshness and actually a somewhat better controlled albeit significantly firmer ride, without any of the pitching or pogoing that the car sometime showed in challenging circumstances and with significantly reduced body roll and brake and acceleration dive and squat also.
I can't say that I notice any increase vibrational harshness either. I do not have the MPP front upper control arm however. Do you have any actual data supporting your assertion? Or are you just talking about some subjective personal impression? As you know those are totally vulnerable to confirmation bias.
And while we're on the subject of the stock OEM suspension, while we all are aware of some of its limitations I think for a stock suspension it struck a pretty good balance between ride and handling. Most of us on this thread would probably have wanted the balance pitched to better handling perhaps at some sacrifice in ride but the car was not exactly terrible handling to begin with. And for a car with 35 series tires and basically one inch of sidewall and very heavy cast OEM wheels, I have to say that the ride in the stock suspension was pretty good too.
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Mrcarcrazy
In need of a shrinking gun to zap a plaid with.
I own a Lotus Elise (I’d argue more of a sportscar than anything you listed). I don’t honestly understand the premise of the thread. It’s a sedan....a heavy ass sedan...my family thinks I should sell the Elise because the Tesla is so much better than it. I disagree. They do similar things, in totally different ways, and provide an entirely different experience while doing it. (I love them both. Kinda like having two kids. They will be different..comparing them is an asshole move and you’ll end up paying for lots of therapy).
The model 3 performance handles well considering...it’s not a track weapon as it sits stock. It can be upgraded like any other car. (Some pretty solid suspension upgrades are available.). It is not intended to be a track car first, road car second. It’s a road car first, track car third. (Not sure what second is).
Everything is a compromise. You cannot have a car that is perfect for every use. That’s why I have three cars and They are all very different.
The model 3 performance handles well considering...it’s not a track weapon as it sits stock. It can be upgraded like any other car. (Some pretty solid suspension upgrades are available.). It is not intended to be a track car first, road car second. It’s a road car first, track car third. (Not sure what second is).
Everything is a compromise. You cannot have a car that is perfect for every use. That’s why I have three cars and They are all very different.
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ULEWZ
Member
I am coming off my third Vette, all C6 Z-51s. Only tracked once and it did great, but I mostly run the canyons at a respectable but safe speed once per month with the guys. Needed something with 4 doors, but not a slouch, enter the P3D. It is not as fun as the Vette in the twisties as it currently stands, but that will change soon.
Dolemite
is my name
2. It's a display of my environmentally responsible choice to drive a vehicle that turns its tires into vapor every 8,000 miles
Fortunately it's not turned into vapor but it is turned into very small particulate matter on the road. What the ecological impact is of all that rubber from all the cars that are depositing small rubber particles on the road is perhaps a good-sized biological unknown. Probably overtime oxidized by UV and turned into some kind of hydrocarbon?
MasterC17
Active Member
I am sure the MPP components add some NVH. However, it is not measurable by the driver in the seat based on my own personal experience, which is really the only thing that matters.
I agree with everything you have said. I don't think Tesla designed the Model 3 with the intent for it to go out on the track (at the very least it was low on the list), it just so happens it works pretty well, and they were able to utilize software to take advantage of that. Since, they have added an (expensive) hardware package.
Honestly, you can take one look at the thin front rotors and know that the purpose of this car is not on a racetrack, and that makes sense. 95%+ of Model 3 owners are never going to see a race track. Tesla had to strike a balance between range, practicality, comfort, and sportiness, and I think they did that quite well. For the people (like us in the thread) who want something more aggressive it's not too difficult to achieve.
i'm very impressed on the aftermarket components that are available for the Model 3. I think this will only get better with time. It's good to hear the feedback from other companies as with MVP. I enjoy reading these type of post, learning more of what the 3 can achieve. No question the next car will be a Tesla, just debating on the S or the 3. With all the fun goodies that are available for the 3, the decisions is edging in that direction.
ULEWZ
Member
Has anybody compiled a list of performance mods for a P3D with cost and the resultant increase in performance?
I have seen various things like springs and sways are the cheapest mods with good results followed by coilovers, sways and arms etc.
Looking forward to a list where I can budget my money vs needs. I will probably rarely track the car but will hit the twisties. Thanks.
I have seen various things like springs and sways are the cheapest mods with good results followed by coilovers, sways and arms etc.
Looking forward to a list where I can budget my money vs needs. I will probably rarely track the car but will hit the twisties. Thanks.
It would be good to get some kind of summary database of all the speed parts.
Cheapest is not necessarily best in terms of either driver satisfaction or even bang for the buck. I can tell you from having to put many if not most of the available speed parts on my car that the greatest bang-for-the-buck is in forged wheels and a sports coilover kit. I'm particularly partial to the Vertini line which you can get from getyourwheels.com where you can get a forged wheel in a 20-inch size for six hundred bucks (I have the VS14). If you want to keep your stock OEM Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires, a 20 by 9 is a great option but another great option is to go 19 by 9.5 and put a 265 / 35 Tire on the car. We now have two sports coilover kits available, one from Redwood/Ohlins and one from Mountain Pass/KW. I'm sure they're both excellent. I have the MPP one and its effect on the car can only be described as transformative. Even if you never track the car but you just like maximum responsiveness, the sports coilover kit is your best bet.
(***Full disclosure I have not yet put on upper control arms or aftermarket sway bars. So I can't comment on the impact they might have particularly for someone who's not going to track the car. I may get the upper control arms at some point)
ULEWZ
Member
Super helpful, thanks. I am looking at Martian Forged wheels in 19/9, but not sure of which tires I will use. Looking for a unicorn in best handling tires with not much if any loss in range. 20" is a no go as I am already replacing 20" rims due to pot holes!!
Best street Tire hands down not even close is still the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S. They're not low rolling resistance Champs but they're pretty good relative to other Max performance summer Tires. Don't know if they make a Tesla spec version in 19 in. Lots of speculation about what they did for the Tesla specification versions of the 4S relative to vanilla versions, but in the 20-inch side it is usefully wider, and probably has a harder compound on the center sections to avoid the accelerated crown wear that one would see at the higher pressures Teslas are running. So I check to see if there's a Tesla spec version in a 19. If you're planning on tracking the track guys have several favorites but probably the re71 might get the most upvotes. I had a pair of them years ago. Loved them in autocross and hated them everywhere else. Noisy, rough riding and gravel-chucking tires but they have cornering bite and great feedback. I suspect you're probably not going to track your car so if you don't the 4S is the best choice
Lotus Elise . . . Isn't that a first generation Tesla Roadster with a retrofit gas engine? Hah!
ULEWZ
Member
Michelin PS4 all the way (the best handling street tire for the vette hands down) just tire size was what I was getting at, 235, vs 245, vs 265.
I'd at the very least go 245 unless you want to be hypermiling. The 265/35 if you want to be a stud muffin and feel like you can thumb your nose at the range loss (that be my vote for sure!
). Although that tire really likes at least a 9.5 inch wheel.The M3P was designed to beat the F80 BMW M3. It does in most tests and on most tracks, while also having more room inside, better efficiency, and better safety.
Dolemite
is my name
I'm gonna say it again - the P3D is very capable. We can all agree to that. Comparing it to an F80 M3 is a bit premature, IMO.
Honda Civic : Honda Civic Si :: Model 3 : Model 3 Performance+
A regular 3 Series is only vaguely comparable to an M3. They are completely different machines. It's up to owners to "finish" building out the P3D (if that's what they want). Even then, unless we get absolutely crazy, the modifications won't be as extensive as an F80 M3. The M3 doesn't even share the majority of its body panels w/ a regular 3 series. It has flared arches, a completely different drivetrain, and comes with Oakley Radarlocks and a Bluetooth earpiece included.
We should appreciate that we're comparing a 2 year-old EV that Tesla can barely put together with a super-sedan that basically invented the category over decades... I hope to see Tesla carve out an ///M or AMG-like division at some point that'll churn out even crazier cars.
Honda Civic : Honda Civic Si :: Model 3 : Model 3 Performance+
A regular 3 Series is only vaguely comparable to an M3. They are completely different machines. It's up to owners to "finish" building out the P3D (if that's what they want). Even then, unless we get absolutely crazy, the modifications won't be as extensive as an F80 M3. The M3 doesn't even share the majority of its body panels w/ a regular 3 series. It has flared arches, a completely different drivetrain, and comes with Oakley Radarlocks and a Bluetooth earpiece included.
We should appreciate that we're comparing a 2 year-old EV that Tesla can barely put together with a super-sedan that basically invented the category over decades... I hope to see Tesla carve out an ///M or AMG-like division at some point that'll churn out even crazier cars.
Uncle Paul
Well-Known Member
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