If my assessment is correct, the crutch needed to be removed eventually. Being able to detect objects and move ahead confidently after a full stop is kinda critical for anything resembling Robotaxi functionality, or users need to be coached on how to safely fling themselves out of a moving vehicle
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Wiki MASTER THREAD: Actual FSD Beta downloads and experiences
- Thread starter jebinc
- Start date
And also accelerating out of the stop…
Today it slightly jumps forward out of a stop at a stop sign, lags, and then finally accelerates. It’s too slow and hesitant out of the chute to the point where other drivers are tempted to skip ahead from other directions.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Thats a tough one. Most of the road rules say you have to change to the closest left lane (and if there are multiple turning lanes, the correct number from the left).
Are there painted turn lanes ? If so, it should follow them ...
This would be an exception where the inner left lane HAS to move into the middle lane (blue), because the left lane (red) immediately turns left back onto the same freeway. The Green lane should go to green.
But like you said, at least in California, most of these off-ramps I've seen have painted lines telling the car which lane it has to go in. (But FSD is still not good about that either, especially in cases where 2 left turn lanes turn into 3.
Even with a painted guiding stripe / "cat track" lines to clarify travel paths, FSD Beta's current behavior is always take the inner-most turn while respecting the lines (when it "sees" them). So this would address the "green to green" outer turn lane behavior assuming the line was drawn correctly, but if the vehicle was in the inner turn lane, FSD Beta would try to get into the "red" lane then immediately switch out to "blue."
In this case, FSD Beta forgot it was in the outer turn lane (doesn't help there's no painted lines) and ended up in "red" but would normally attempt to go for "blue." @JulienW, you can write to GDOT making a suggestion of adding the guiding stripes.
I've had similar behaviors for just a single turn lane with 3 destination lanes, and like you suggest basically everybody avoids the inner-most "red" lane because just like this case, it goes back onto the highway. But some states like Washington (and Georgia) have laws requiring that behavior: "so as to leave the intersection… in the extreme left-hand lane lawfully available to traffic moving in the same direction as the vehicle on the roadway being entered."
So it's kinda interesting that FSD Beta left turn behavior is more conservative than what's actually allowed in California: "so as to leave the intersection in a lane lawfully available to traffic moving in that direction upon the roadway being entered…"
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Not just that - if there are multiple turn lanes, FSD prefers taking the left most. Even if it means multiple extra lane changes.
May be their accuracy with turns is better in the left most lane (traffic only to one side) ?
Something just dawned on me
If this is true, it could also explain why FSD Beta stops so far back from stop signs. The system is fully capable of stopping right at the line, but it stops far back enough to give itself something of a "running start" from way behind the sign so it has some motion and can use that to increase the chance it'll know nothing is coming and will have a fluid exit from the stop.
I would bet that's what's happening
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I think it's the other way around so this behavior shouldn't make too much difference - it has trouble distinguishing stopped objects from moving ones (and motion of the car itself no doubt doesn't help).
Mine has pretty much never rolled a stop even though the intersections in my area are clear about half the time. Instead it stops and waits for cars that are parked. I've also been using Assertive mode ever since they introduced the toggle.
PACEMD
Active Member
Little known fact, FSD-beta stops so far back from a sign/light just to annoy you. People on TMC always underestimate the running sense of humor of AIs. Especially when that AI is drunk. Get a few drinks in 'em and they're all like.......watch this, this will be funny........and they're staggering all over the street.......stopping willy-nilly.......crossing lines........you name it........
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The system definitely didn't roll all stops, probably because something leading up to the non-rolled stops reduced the certainty of the criteria Tesla had been using to initiate a roll. But I think it would have been there as a way of improving the experience by integrating stops where it could avoid the excessive hesitation by rolling where possible, and that could be perceived by users as better than hesitating at every single stop.
I believe lack of motion on either end can be a problem because of the way the system/algorithms use images to gauge position and motion, speed, direction, etc. The car needs to determine if any nearby objects are headed towards it and whether it's safe to proceed, and the car's own motion can be correlated with the visual data to more quickly determine motion of everything around it. If the car is sitting still, it wouldn't have that reference point and can only process more visual data before it'll be confident enough to hit the accelerator.
This paper describes something that sounds a lot like what Tesla would be using. On Page 2 where it talks about the KITTI MOD Dataset that uses trained networks and labelling for object detection, I think it's also talking about using odometer and GPS/IMU (inertial) data as part of this inexpensive way of calculating motion etc by considering motion of the camera itself.
And this isn't saying that autonomous systems can't detect moving objects when their own vehicle is at a standstill, but having another reference point could accelerate the pace of decision-making.
This is all just speculation though, I'm not an expert in this tech and there are currently very few people in the world who are.
It could even be that volume of training data in an area is what contributed to whether or not a stop would be rolled, which kinda puts a new spin on the "California roll"
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kinda like rabbits bobbing their heads to triangulate distance because they don't have stereo vision.
Not excusing FSD beta for failing there, but this is what you get when you're going for few disengagements. I would have disengaged right when it seemed like it was hugging the first pylon too closely. Had that been a curb, that could be a curb rash situation. Why risk it? They let the car do its thing for too long. Disengage early. Sure you might not see what the car would have done, but you don't always want to see what the car will do. Case in point here. Now they have damage on their car.
Earlier in the vid when the car was attempting a left turn, and a truck was approaching from the left, the car creeped forward a bit. I would have disengaged there. I get everyone's tolerance is different, but just watching these guys made me uncomfortable.
Yeah this is incredibly dangerous for this guy to be allowing FSD to operate. I know he's going for views but the whole point of beta is for us to stop the car from getting into trouble.
FYI I believe AI Addict is an engineer at Tesla, or at least he has had videos/comments in the past suggesting that he is. And I believe he has posted videos of testing Beta builds prior to broader roll-out, so all that might make him more inclined to take bigger risks.
Most of his drive there was terrible. If that pylon was solid metal/concrete, that would have caused some nasty damage
Most of his drive there was terrible. If that pylon was solid metal/concrete, that would have caused some nasty damage
coreylista
Member
So the map update seems to be super random…
For those who have received 10.10 does it always come with the new map update?
I understand the tiered approach for FSD beta releases. I don’t understand the random map data release approach. I have a feeling it would fix quite a few of the little issues that I’ve had with every FSD version so far. Why wouldn’t they mass release something like that?
For those who have received 10.10 does it always come with the new map update?
I understand the tiered approach for FSD beta releases. I don’t understand the random map data release approach. I have a feeling it would fix quite a few of the little issues that I’ve had with every FSD version so far. Why wouldn’t they mass release something like that?
No, Navigation Data is its own update has no direct relation to any other updates.
For instance I got the Navigation Data update yesterday but still on 10.9.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Difficult to say from the video - he probably could have disengaged. Definitely there wasn't a lot of time or he wasn't pushing to see what would happen. He barely had the time to disengage - it sounds like we was surprised it hit the pillar instead of turning away.
valem
Member
People that post these kind of videos make my blood boil... he's driving with FSD beta, a dog on his lap and petting the dog ... his hands are nowhere near the wheel!
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Is he using a cheating device - couple of things stuck to the wheel ? Didn't see him touch the wheel a single time.
Well, there's hands free driving for you.
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