The blue route line on visualization has it turning, but the line suddenly straightens out and goes through the intersection?
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Wiki MASTER THREAD: Actual FSD Beta downloads and experiences
- Thread starter jebinc
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old pilot
Member
I'm not quick enough to see if that is true on the screen, to busy trying to avoid an accident crossing the road, but that is a good question and I will try to remember to look next time.
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
I still have the reverse issue with turn lanes. The blue line has it going straight but it decides to go into the turn lane and ends up turning instead of continuing straight. Less frequent than with 10.12 but it still occurs.
Yours sounds like the common planner problem, where it's selecting the wrong lane. However, it at least follows the lane properly for you, so if it goes into a left turn lane, it's turning left. What old pilot seemed to say is that it's in the right lane, ready to make a turn, and then just doesn't make the turn. Old Pilot, is it a dedicated right turn lane, or just the right lane which can turn?
old pilot
Member
I'm sorry I was not clear on the explanation. The intersection is where a two lane divided road without a dedicated turn lane intersects another two lane divided road. In short just two two lane roads intersecting at an oblique angle of about 120 degrees. I can say that when the car stops before making the turn the blue line shows that it will make the turn but after beginning the turn it suddenly jerks the wheel to the left to go straight. As I stated before I did not see what the blue line showed after the sudden movement to stop the right turn and go straight.
hybridbear
Active Member
10.69.2 was supposed to improve lane selection, but our car still makes poor lane choices. On the exit ramp near our house it is 2 lanes at the traffic light, both lanes can turn left, and only the right of the 2 lanes can turn right. It doesn't matter which lane we're in, the car doesn't select the lane correctly on the street we turn onto. That street has 5 lanes total at the bridge over the freeway, 2 lanes in each direction, plus a southbound left turn only lane for traffic to enter the freeway going the other direction. The car will always turn us into the left turn only lane. Last night with low traffic I let it go. It put on the right turn signal but didn't change out of the left turn only lane. The blue line flashed back & forth between turning left back onto the freeway or changing lanes to the right. In the end it didn't turn left, tried to continue driving straight, and was heading straight for a concrete median. At the last second when it was clear that it wasn't going to change lanes I grabbed the wheel & swerved into the correct lane as my wife screamed at the car for its stupidity...
I'm absolutely shocked that no one has had an accident with FSD Beta driving. We've had so many close calls where I've only barely prevented an accident. I can't believe there hasn't been a situation yet that someone misses where FSD Beta causes an accident.
I'm absolutely shocked that no one has had an accident with FSD Beta driving. We've had so many close calls where I've only barely prevented an accident. I can't believe there hasn't been a situation yet that someone misses where FSD Beta causes an accident.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
There have been minor collisions, there just haven't been any airbag deployments (the metric Tesla uses for their safety report). It is remarkable though, especially when I see things like this:
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
I’m surprised no one has had an accident with airbags deploying a few seconds after disengaging FSD Beta. That actually seems like the most hazardous scenario. It really has the potential to get into pickles.
I think now that they are increasing capability and there will be more people entering the program, it won’t be long now. Obviously I hope I am wrong and it is safe for a while. Of course it is just a matter of time, regardless.
hybridbear
Active Member
I know, I watched that video. Chuck is my favorite of the YouTube FSD Beta testers. Have there been articles about minor collisions? I don't recall seeing reporting of that. I'd think it would be big news.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
This was probably the worst one so far. Caught a lucky break (though I assume the car was technically totaled due to battery damage (was not mentioned), etc., unless they were very lucky).
FSD Beta Attempts to Kill Me; Causes Accident
There is an article, which mentions this incident. I assume it is a legit FSD accident since the poster went completely quiet (they had an account here; probably settled with Tesla or something). FSD Beta 10.4.
This accident would have been avoided with two hands firmly torquing the wheel. It just would have disengaged immediately, end of story. (Note the OP claimed hands were on the wheel.) Click through twice for a description from the driver. But I could see an easy case for a settlement on this one, given the unnatural behavior to avoid a mailbox.
FSD Beta accidents
Note this LA Times article and the reporting to authorities is garbage, and includes a lot of accidents clearly not in FSD Beta mode. It’s just a terribly written, negligent article (nearly as negligent as some FSD Beta users!). People want to know about the accidents that occur in FSD mode, not random ones that do not. Useless.
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I get that a driver might not want to admit FSD Beta was active when there was an accident. I don't think it helps their case at all, because if they "let" the car do something unsafe then it shows negligence on their part. There's really not much defense to an accident on FSD Beta, and in a way it's worse than "just an accident" because they weren't even in control of the car.
Now Tesla is duty-bound to self report all incidents they have become aware of. If the driver doesn't report FSD Beta use to the police, then Tesla has to have received a report from the car itself. Someone has to monitor this and act accordingly, that's assuming the car actually did send a report in the first place. I know Tesla SAYS that this mechanism is 100% in place. I'd like to believe Tesla acts in good faith to these assumptions.
willow_hiller
Well-Known Member
We probably need to be more vocal to our representatives to demand that agencies like the NHTSA collect better data and publish better reporting. The NHTSA had that big press release of their first level-2 crash report back in June: NHTSA Releases Initial Data on Safety Performance of Advanced Vehicle Technologies | NHTSA
In the press release, they said "Going forward, NHTSA will release data updates monthly." But I cannot find any additional data released since that first report.
I think it'll end up being quarterly. There's a lot of data to compile, and many manufacturers are slow to turn over data to the agency.
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
Which is why it's still beta, they enrollment is still limited at they still have huge warnings to keep your hands on the wheel, pay attention, etc.
If you've been part of the FSDb program I'm surprised that you're surprised at the close calls (or that you didn't intervene to prevent them before they were close)
And yet almost nobody on social media keeps their hands on the wheel, and Tesla doesn't do the extremely easy thing of requiring it through constant torque sensing. Or at least near constant.
Although it could be that social media drivers are just the worst drivers.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Even if they did that, these drivers would not keep their hands on the wheel.
They would just be jostling it all the time.
I’ve never really understood taking the hands off the wheel. There is nowhere to put your hands except on the wheel!
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
I actually don't keep my hands on the wheel or apply constant torque because I find it very difficult to do without constantly causing disengagements, especially if the car's turning. I do keep my hands on my knees right next to the wheel and constantly watch so I'm prepared to take over instantly. For areas where I'm more concerned I have my hands around the wheel but not actually gripping it.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Hmm. I usually only disengage during a turn when the car makes a mistake (suddenly jerks the wheel, doesn’t stay on the right line, etc). Mostly I can just hold the wheel. It takes a little practice and time, I guess, because you do have to give some level of “trust” to the vehicle to let it move the wheel at all, but a light grip (or even just letting the wheel slide through in some situations - it depends) seems to work fine. And the two hands are great for making those fine corrections when using FSD Beta.
I keep my hands on the wheel, and apply pretty constant, but light, torque. I almost never get a nag. I know what the car is going to do as it's driving, so when a turn is coming where the wheel must make a larger move, I loosen my grip and let the wheel slide in my hands, then tighten up the grip a bit when the maneuver is finished.
Alan and my method works best, I think, but there is a downside to always holding the wheel. If there is a legitimate emergency, where the car needs to make a big correction to avoid say an obstacle or pedestrian that darted in front of the car, the grip could disable FSD and prevent the car from completing the maneuver. I personally have not had such an event in the 10 months I've been using Beta, but I do acknowledge the possibility.
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