Wiki MASTER THREAD: Actual FSD Beta downloads and experiences

[mtndrew1]

This morning I made note of my concern with being unable to disable lane changes (edit: same issue but different location along my commute).

My car leaves my garage automagically routing to work, correctly. The route is the 110 freeway to the 101, exiting Temple.

Then, midstream, the nav decides that we should exit the 110 at 3rd street and cross four lanes of traffic within half a block and turn right on Beaudry. This is extremely difficult to do driving manually and impossible for FSD.

In the past I just ignored the weird midstream rerouting and the car figured out that we remained on the freeway and the routing corrected at which point I’d re-enable NoA.

My workaround is no longer an option and FSDb v11 tries, repeatedly and aggressively, to get off at that midstream reroute. The only option is to turn off autopilot completely until I’ve passed the incorrect map data.

The weird and impossible reroute:


After the car figures it out:

 

[MP3Mike]

The weird and impossible reroute:

It doesn't look like bad map data to me, and it doesn't look like it is trying to get back on 110. That looks like it is trying to route to avoid the red section of the 110. (Also, it does appear to be a shorter route.)

 

[Dewg]

This morning I made note of my concern with being unable to disable lane changes.

My car leaves my garage automagically routing to work, correctly. The route is the 110 freeway to the 101, exiting Temple.

Then, midstream, the nav decides that we should exit the 110 at 3rd street and cross four lanes of traffic within half a block and turn right on Beaudry. This is extremely difficult to do driving manually and impossible for FSD.

In the past I just ignored the weird midstream rerouting and the car figured out that we remained on the freeway and the routing corrected at which point I’d re-enable NoA.

My workaround is no longer an option and FSDb v11 tries, repeatedly and aggressively, to get off at that midstream reroute. The only option is to turn off autopilot completely until I’ve passed the incorrect map data.

The weird and impossible reroute:
View attachment 925278

After the car figures it out:
View attachment 925279

Can you lower the mode in Setting - Autopilot from FSD Beta to Autopilot (middle option)? That should open up the old AP/NoA settings.

 

[mtndrew1]

It doesn't look like bad map data to me, and it doesn't look like it is trying to get back on 110. That looks like it is trying to route to avoid the red section of the 110. (Also, it does appear to be a shorter route.)

I should have been more clear; this is a different reroute issue than the one I referenced yesterday; there are multiple instances in my day to day driving where the car does inappropriate routing and now it results in mandatory unwanted lane changes.

Edit: it is in fact a shorter route, so short that it’s almost impossible for a human and entirely impossible for FSD. That’s why I ignore this particular reroute.

 

[mtndrew1]

Can you lower the mode in Setting - Autopilot from FSD Beta to Autopilot (middle option)? That should open up the old AP/NoA settings.

Yes I can but it cannot be changed mid-trip. The settings must be changed in Park.

 

[mxnym]

I should have been more clear; this is a different reroute issue than the one I referenced yesterday; there are multiple instances in my day to day driving where the car does inappropriate routing and now it results in mandatory unwanted lane changes.

Edit: it is in fact a shorter route, so short that’s it almost impossible for a human and entirely impossible for FSD. That’s why I ignore this particular reroute.

Isn't there a setting for when to reroute to save time? Perhaps you should increase the threshold there if you are getting reroutes you don't want regularly? Or are you saying this is the default route regardless of traffic and you don't like it? I've been in the habit of breaking out of FSD with the wheel or stalk as necessary for various reasons even on surface roads with one lane per direction, so this wouldn't really phase me in the latter case; I'd either switch to TACC right before it started switching lanes by cancelling FSD and engaging TACC with the stalk or if I forgot, I would break out with the steering wheel. In either case, I'd re-engage after the exit.

 

[mtndrew1]

Isn't there a setting for when to reroute to save time? Perhaps you should increase the threshold there if you are getting reroutes you don't want regularly? Or are you saying this is the default route regardless of traffic and you don't like it? I've been in the habit of breaking out of FSD with the wheel or stalk as necessary for various reasons even on surface roads with one lnae per direction, so this wouldn't realy phase me in the latter case; I'd either switch to basic AP right before it started switching lanes by cancelling FSD and engaging AP with the stalk or if I forgri, I would break out with the wheel. In either case, I'd re-engage after the exit.

There is no more option to cancel FSD and enable AP without automatic lane changes unless you park the car and change the settings.

That’s the issue, whatever the car decides the route is going to be on v11, that’s where it’s going unless you drive manually. You cannot disable navigation-based lane changes anymore.

 

[mxnym]

There is no more option to cancel FSD and enable AP without automatic lane changes unless you park the car and change the settings.

That’s the issue, whatever the car decides the route is going to be on v11, that’s where it’s going unless you drive manually. You cannot disable navigation-based lane changes anymore.

I edited my previous comment to say what I meant, however, it is still also feasible that this and other examples which don't involve bad map data are due to your navigation configuration not matching with your real life preferences.

 

[mtndrew1]

I edited my previous comment to say what I meant, however, it is still also feasible that this and other examples which don't involve bad map data are due to your navigation configuration not matching with your real life preferences.

The example I referenced yesterday is absolutely bad map data and happens regardless of whether or not I have time saving rerouting enabled. Today’s example is debatable because it’s a nearly impossible and illegal maneuver and it happens whether or not there is any traffic. At midnight it does the same thing and it has for years.

As far as yesterday’s example, from the 110 carpool lane near 39th street it does a reroute onto 39th and then immediately gets back on the freeway. The car also stops for an imaginary intersection on the freeway at the same spot because it thinks the car is on a surface street.

Because of this, FSDb tries to get over to prepare for the fake exit because it doesn’t understand that we’re still on the freeway.

I could work around all of this nonsense by disabling lane changes. That is no longer possible.

 

[Dewg]

Yes I can but it cannot be changed mid-trip. The settings must be changed in Park.

I've read people who have different profiles with different settings, and they switch profiles mid drive. Perhaps that could work.

 

[mtndrew1]

I've read people who have different profiles with different settings, and they switch profiles mid drive. Perhaps that could work.

Oh that’s a great idea! I’ll try that. Thank you.

 

[hybridbear]

I've read people who have different profiles with different settings, and they switch profiles mid drive. Perhaps that could work.

That's what we do. Both my wife & I have 2 profiles, one with FSD Beta & one without. This allows us to switch as needed.

 

[EMEV]

That's what we do. Both my wife & I have 2 profiles, one with FSD Beta & one without. This allows us to switch as needed.

Just checking but is the different profiles with different FSDb settings or different software versions?

 

[hybridbear]

Just checking but is the different profiles with different FSDb settings or different software versions?

The car can only have 1 software version. So we have 1 profile each with FSD Beta enabled & 1 each with old Navigate on Autopilot enabled.

 

[EMEV]

The car can only have 1 software version. So we have 1 profile each with FSD Beta enabled & 1 each with old Navigate on Autopilot enabled.

Ok, thank you. Changing from FSDb to Autosteer (Navigate on Auto Pilot) is changing one setting which is the same effort as changing profiles. So I was wondering what is the benefit of having different profiles just for this setting, unless you have multiple other settings changed?

 

[hybridbear]

Ok, thank you. Changing from FSDb to Autosteer (Navigate on Auto Pilot) is changing one setting which is the same effort as changing profiles. So I was wondering what is the benefit of having different profiles just for this setting, unless you have multiple other settings changed?

Someone stated that you cannot change these settings while driving. By having different profiles you can change the settings while driving. You don't have to be in Park to change them if you are switching profiles.

 

[scottf200]

Ok, thank you. Changing from FSDb to Autosteer (Navigate on Auto Pilot) is changing one setting which is the same effort as changing profiles. So I was wondering what is the benefit of having different profiles just for this setting, unless you have multiple other settings changed?

You do NOT have to be in park to change the profile.
You do have to be in park to change to FSDb.

 

[JHCCAZ]

There is no more option to cancel FSD and enable AP without automatic lane changes unless you park the car and change the settings.

That’s the issue, whatever the car decides the route is going to be on v11, that’s where it’s going unless you drive manually. You cannot disable navigation-based lane changes anymore.

If I understand this correctly, you might try my method to stay in FSD but still avoid the unwanted exit:

I have a spot on surface streets where I don't want the car to take the routed right turn, because it leads to an unprotected left I don't like. I want to go to the next traffic light before turning right. However, this situation occurs near the end of my drive so I cannot select it using Alternate Routes when I begin the drive.

(Interestingly, even if I put the car into TACC prior to this unwanted turn, it obviously won't force me to turn but it still slows down and won't proceed straight unless I override the accelerator. Of course, once I force it past the unwanted turn it will reroute automatically and complete the drive the way I want.)​

The official way to handle this is to use the Alternate Routes feature, but being near the end of my drive, that particular alternate route option is not available when I start out.

My solution is that when I'm a mile or so from the upcoming unwanted turn, I stay in FSD but I hit the End Trip button, then the nav search bar to bring up Favorites and reselect my destination. At that point, my preferred Alternate Route is close enough to the current location that it can be selected by touching the map, and no further control is required because the car is already in FSD - just a brief stretch during during which I canceled and restarted the nav. So it's not a disengagement, but it is a navigation intervention during the drive.

(Another possible solution would be to set a Waypoint that forces the car to avoid the unwanted turn or exit. I haven't tried this yet, but it might reduce the small amount of map interaction while driving, because the Waypoint can be set at the beginning when the particular Alternate Route he's unavailable.)​

I would really like it if we could snapshot and save the memory of the route, or otherwise pre-plan it and save. That is, have Favorite Routes and not just Favorite Destinations.

 

[Dennisis]

I had a number of unwanted and unnecessary lane hopping events, despite being on Chill and ensuring the button was activated at the beginning of the drive

11.3.3: I was on "aggressive" and "minimize lane changes" this morning in the city and had the same issue with lane changes. Twice I was in the left lane traveling towards left turns less than a mile away and the car moved to the right lane, had to get back to the left pretty quickly. No reason for this.

Also traveled through a neighborhood with large well marked speed bumps and smaller not so well marked in another area. Car saw the large ones and slowed perfectly as I would, missed the smaller ones completely.

Aside from these issues the rest of my 15 plus mile city trip was uneventful. Most of what I've experienced since the update has been handled well, especially the highway, and the negatives don't seem so extreme that some tweaking shouldn't fix without too much work IMO. School zones are way down on my concerns as there are too many variables and I'm playing close attention anyways. Hopefully it won't be too long before fixes start rolling out.

 

[mtndrew1]

If I understand this correctly, you might try my method to stay in FSD but still avoid the unwanted exit:

I have a spot on surface streets where I don't want the car to take the routed right turn, because it leads to an unprotected left I don't like. I want to go to the next traffic light before turning right. However, this situation occurs near the end of my drive so I cannot select it using Alternate Routes when I begin the drive.

(Interestingly, even if I put the car into TACC prior to this unwanted turn, it obviously won't force me to turn but it still slows down and won't proceed straight unless I override the accelerator. Of course, once I force it past the unwanted turn it will reroute automatically and complete the drive the way I want.)​

The official way to handle this is to use the Alternate Routes feature, but being near the end of my drive, that particular alternate route option is not available when I start out.

My solution is that when I'm a mile or so from the upcoming unwanted turn, I stay in FSD but I hit the End Trip button, then the nav search bar to bring up Favorites and reselect my destination. At that point, my preferred Alternate Route is close enough to the current location that it can be selected by touching the map, and no further control is required because the car is already in FSD - just a brief stretch during during which I canceled and restarted the nav. So it's not a disengagement, but it is a navigation intervention during the drive.

(Another possible solution would be to set a Waypoint that forces the car to avoid the unwanted turn or exit. I haven't tried this yet, but it might reduce the small amount of map interaction while driving, because the Waypoint can be set at the beginning when the particular Alternate Route he's unavailable.)​

I would really like it if we could snapshot and save the memory of the route, or otherwise pre-plan it and save. That is, have Favorite Routes and not just Favorite Destinations.

That’s a good tip and I’ll give it a try. I will just remain hopeful that dumb autopilot+NoA on the highway and FSDb on city streets returns at some point.

I’m driving from LA to Palmdale tonight on the 14 where in the past NoA would prompt dozens of incorrect lane changes because the map data has the freeway repeatedly merging with an adjacent highway. Apple Maps does this (or did, I haven’t used CarPlay on that route in a while) and it just says “now take highway 14 north” over and over. They must use the same data.

It’s this exact kind of situation where I want to be able to turn on autopilot within a given lane and have it just stay there for 30 miles. I always disable NoA on the 14 for just this reason.