Makes sense. We know the Hubbell is branded with the UL and CSA cert on the visible front portion. There are probably government and industrial applications that require it because they are subject to random facility inspections. So Hubbell charges more for that feature.
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Master Thread: Definitive 14-50 NEMA Outlet Guide
- Thread starter gilscales
- Start date
Makes sense. We know the Hubbell is branded with the UL and CSA cert on the visible front portion. There are probably government and industrial applications that require it because they are subject to random facility inspections. So Hubbell charges more for that feature.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
What does the bolded portion of Hubbel's response mean ?
It **sounds** like some components are stamped with identifying information. OK, but are they otherwise different ?
Someone needs to just take the back screw out of a hubbell so we know for sure. It comes apart and goes together easy. I'm about to post my final pics of the Bryant.
n2mb_racing
Active Member
I don't know why anyone would consider anything else. It's only about $50 shipped for this high-quality outlet.
Haven't seen your previous posts, so am now kicking out at random. Just so we're clear: the NEMA14-50 had L1, L2 (both hot), N (neutral), and G (ground). The voltage across L1/L2 is 240 VAC and is what the car works with. L1<->N and L2<->N is 120 VAC and ought to be equal, but might not be.
First off: Charge rate will be reduced if there's a drop in voltage between L1<->L2 from when the car is first connected and when the car starts drawing significant current. The assumption is that there's something resistive in line; since Power Dissipation goes as Current*Current*R, some hot spot or other might be getting hot enough to Set Things On Fire; reducing the current by, say, 80% from the nominal 32A drops power dissipation by 0.8^2, or 64%.
In principle, one ought to be able to see this from the car's screen. Start off by stopping charging from a menu or something. The car should display the voltage applied. Start charging: As the current goes up, the voltage should remain steady. If it drops, more than a half-volt or so, and definitely if it drops a couple-three volts, you have a problem.
So, going along those lines, what could be causing the additional resistance? In no particular order:
- Breaker going bad. It happens. I've actually had a breaker die once. Breakers, like switches, have contacts and they do degrade over time.
- Loose connection somewhere. Breakers socket into the breaker panel; there's two wires coming out of the duplex breaker, either of them could be loose.
- I really, really doubt this, but the main feed coming into your breaker panel from the house electrical meter could have a loose bolt somewhere? Most houses in the US have split feed; that is, from the power pole, you got L1, L2, and N. Those get bolted onto three bolts in the back of your meter. Coming out of your meter on three more bolts, you got L1, L2, and N again, and these get bolted to (for L1 and L2) the two bus bars. (I'm not sure if N goes through the meter like this.. been a while since I looked.) But you got four bolts (or maybe six) on the meter and two bolts (and maybe three) on the breaker panel itself. I would very definitely not go tugging on wires back there: Those suckers are live. One minor note: The N wire gets bolted to the ground frame in the breaker panel; further, a Big, Heavy green wire is also bolted onto that ground frame and, in normal construction, exits the house and is clamped to the end of a six-foot, thick copper stake which has been pounded into the ground.
If you're actually going to do this, and your Day Job is not that of an electrician, might I suggest the following safety rules?
- Have a helper. The helper's job is that, if you get connected to live voltage, is to pull you off the high voltage and get you to the hospital. And or restart your heart. Towards that end, the helper should have in his/her hands a heavy, non-conductive rope that can be quickly looped around you so you can be pulled away. It would be Bad News if the helper grabs you and gets clenched to you, too.
- Wear rubber sneakers. And don't stand in a pool of water. Or do any of this while sopping wet, with water or sweat.
- If at all possible, stick one hand in your back pocket and leave it there. Use the other hand to manipulate voltmeter probes or to tug on the insulated portions of wires. Having current going from one arm to the other arm, through your chest, is a great way to stop your heart. Permanently. One hand in the pocket makes that less likely.
(FWIW, that little symbol up there isn't a joke: I used to work on MW-class RADAR systems with 15 kV (and up) power supplies. I've therefore got the training and experience: Do you?)
I've had lots of experience with overheating EVSE and voltage drops due to long runs of undersized wire.
When the EVSE overheats (due to high ambient temperature and direct sunlight with a Tesla Mobile Connector or due to a poor plug design with Lectron EVSE), the EVSE commands a reduction in charging current, but NO alert has ever appeared in the vehicle.
When there is a large voltage drop (the vehicle will reduce charging current if the voltage drops more 12% from the starting voltage), the vehicle reduces charging current and there IS an alert that reads, "charging current reduced due to unexpected voltage drop..."
I have never seen an alert that said that charging current was reduced due to high plug temperature.
What "charger" are you using?
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davewill
Active Member
In that case, I have to question your mobile connector or the adapter. Can you test it at another location, or test with another mobile connector with your outlet?
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Presuming your outlet was properly installed (wires torqued properly), and you are using the Mobile connector, check your 14-50 adapter. You can unseat it from the Mobile Connector (see below how the whole pigtail can be pulled out from the Mobile Connector) and reseat it. Also make sure your plug is fully inserted into the 14-50 outlet.
To be clear I'm talking about this one:
https://shop.tesla.com/product/gen-2-nema-adapters
Unfortunately to do a real test if reseating both ends does not work, is to test your adapter somewhere else or to try a replacement one.
n2mb_racing
Active Member
Likely overheating. After charging for a while and you get the error, stop charging and unplug the UMC. Feel the plugs (after unplugging!). See if you can tell if they are very hot and which is hot. Then probably open up the outlet again (with the power off) and tighten down the screws again.
Thanks for the help brainstorming guys
Im using the Tesla Mobile Charger, I'll try unplugging and reconnecting the 15-50 adapter, but I'm pretty sure its fully seated
The distance from my electrical box to the plug is only about ~3 or 4ft, so its not likely due to a long run
I have another mobile charger I can try using
So after swapping the socket I started charging my Model S at 20A, and it ended up getting decreased to 16A due to overheating. I got home and touched the plug and it wasn't warm at all.
I tested my Model Y and that was actually able to complete the charge at 32A without a warning. Plug/charger was warm after completing the charge but not hot
I tested my Model S again and that got the overheating warning again... (but i didn't get chance to feel the plug because the warning came at 2AM)
Not sure what that means
Im using the Tesla Mobile Charger, I'll try unplugging and reconnecting the 15-50 adapter, but I'm pretty sure its fully seated
The distance from my electrical box to the plug is only about ~3 or 4ft, so its not likely due to a long run
I have another mobile charger I can try using
So after swapping the socket I started charging my Model S at 20A, and it ended up getting decreased to 16A due to overheating. I got home and touched the plug and it wasn't warm at all.
I tested my Model Y and that was actually able to complete the charge at 32A without a warning. Plug/charger was warm after completing the charge but not hot
I tested my Model S again and that got the overheating warning again... (but i didn't get chance to feel the plug because the warning came at 2AM)
Not sure what that means
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So, older Model S, maybe?
I take a wild swing for the bleachers and suggest that the overheat might be due to:
- Bad connection/temperature sensor in the car. The car's got one in and around the Big Connector. So, when you get that error, pull out the NACS and feel it up, being careful not burn yourself. (Maybe).
- Bad TMC. TMC's temp sensors are in the handle, in the adapter, and, I think, in the electronics body itself. If one of those is reading hot for illegit or legit reasons, then that's your trouble.
Its a 2021+ MS if that makes a difference
I'll try feeling the plug on my next charge, and test out a different TMC
Thanks!
Edit: I also checked the connections on the breaker side for the red/black wires and they were tight. Couldnt check the white and ground wire though because I wasn't able to locate which ones they were
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That is strange.
Last Summer, I had multiple instances of various parts of my Tesla Mobile Connector overheating when charging my 2023 Model Y in direct sun on hot days. I never received any type of alert in the vehicle, app, or in service mode. The only indications of trouble was the charging current dropping from 32/32 A to 16/16 A and when I looked at the lights on the Mobile Connector, they would indicate where the overheating was detected.
Also, I have had multiple Lectron 40A mobile "chargers" overheat and reduce charging current after a few months of daily use. I had two of these units fail and get replaced under warranty. After the third one failed in the same manner, I demanded and received a refund. I volunteered to work directly with Lectron's product engineers to perform a root cause analysis in an effort to help them improve the safety and reliability of their product, but they didn't seem interested. Each time the plugs overheated, the only indication was a reduction in charging current from 40 amps to 16 amps - there wasn't even an indication of overheating on the unit's indicators. There were no alerts in the vehicle or app, either, but it is likely that Lectron's equipment doesn't communicate anything other than charging current with the vehicle.
I have also had a reduction in charging current occur due to excessive voltage drop. This happens regularly at a park I charge at that has about a 400-foot run to the receptacles. I strongly suspect the installer did not size the wire appropriately based on distance. As a result, the voltage drop is about 10% at 40 amps leaving little room for normal fluctuations so a drop of just a few more volts causes the vehicle to decrease the charging current from 40/40 A to 30/40 A. When this happens, there is an alert in the vehicle.
CyberGus
Not Just a Member
If you have or can borrow an IR temperature gun you can find the exact temp it reached when it reduced current.
There must be a specific temp where it limits current, probably too hot to hold. If the temp is reasonable (maybe under 120F or so) it points to the UMC or adaptor.
There must be a specific temp where it limits current, probably too hot to hold. If the temp is reasonable (maybe under 120F or so) it points to the UMC or adaptor.
How quickly does reduced charge error happen? Is it right away (within 5 to 10 minutes) or does it take an hour or two? Does the mobile connector have red blinking "T" in the Tesla logo when it happens?
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