"Met the X" yesterday...meh

[CarlK]

Seems like the rolled up theme in this thread is that the X isn't the best SUV overall, has many kinks to workout still in quality/seating, and really isn't too much bigger than the S. The S seems like a viable alternative if you don't like the X now, has been through tons of refinement, and is a pretty big car that holds a lot. If you can leave with seating 4-5 most of the time comfortably, no brainer.

Yes Model S is still worthy of consideration if you don't need the few latest and greatest feautures or just want a SUV like my wife does.

 

[aesculus]

Seems like the rolled up theme in this thread is that the X isn't the best SUV overall, has many kinks to workout still in quality/seating, and really isn't too much bigger than the S. The S seems like a viable alternative if you don't like the X now, has been through tons of refinement, and is a pretty big car that holds a lot. If you can leave with seating 4-5 most of the time comfortably, no brainer.

Well some of us less agile people find the MS too confining, difficult to enter/exit, seating comfort and the visibility is not that good either. So the MX looked(s) like the better choice there for me.

Really I have no need for hauling any more than 4 people, 6 tops rarely, so the seating in the MS would be OK and the utility aspects are probably even better than the MX. So for some of us we have to look at the MX as a tradeoff to the MS because of the limitation stated above.

I did a bake-off with the MS (next gen seats) and the MX just came up the clear winner. For most the MS would probably win. And I really would prefer the MS and wanted it more than the MX.

 

[FlasherZ]

Well some of us less agile people find the MS too confining, difficult to enter/exit, seating comfort and the visibility is not that good either. So the MX looked(s) like the better choice there for me.

This is probably the biggest win for my wife in comparing the two. The S sits so low that it hurts her back to get in and out of it. The X is much roomier to enter/exit.

 

[elguapo]

Height of car/seats is also a winner for me since I have kids that I need to get in and out. The S is uncomfortably low if you need to reach in and buckle a car seat or booster.

 

[Zaxxon]

We 'met the X' in Denver this past Saturday. Overall I was impressed with the car--certainly not 'meh' from my perspective. Unfortunately we're going to cancel our reservation and will put off our move to full electric for a couple more years (Model 3 reservation list, here we come...). I'll try to detail our reasoning here. Please, don't send the vultures to descend upon me. Apologies for the length of the post... I wanted to try to fully explain our thought process.

Some background: we've been waiting to upgrade from a 2 Prius household to add a 6- or 7-seat vehicle suitable for road-tripping our family of 4 as well as allowing us to deal with having guests in town w/o having to take 2 vehicles. We've been waiting for a while. Our X deposit went down in Feb of 2014, and at that time we planned to have the X or whatever alternative we settled on by late 2015. When the X kept getting delayed, we kept on waiting, wanting to drive the X before making a decision one way or the other. We wanted to go full electric, but knew that that may not be realistic for us as the X is the only game in town. If we didn't like it / couldn't afford the ultimate pricing, we'd have to settle for a hybrid or PHEV.

After the X 'launched' and pricing came out, we knew what we would be dealing with if we wanted the X: at least $98,500 for a 'base' X with the 90 kWh battery and 6 seats--no other options. That is steep for us. Certainly doable, but the vehicle would have to be head-and-shoulders better than the competition for our purposes. And ideally we wouldn't want a hobbled X--we'd like Autopilot, leather seating, a color other than white/black, and the accessory hitch--now we're at $104k. After tax credits here in the Rockies, it'd be about $91k. I'm aware we could get a 70 kWh battery, but we don't want to deal with road-trip hassles and aren't sure that 220 rated miles would be enough, especially on trips off the Supercharger path or five years from now with some degradation in place.

In the time leading up to our Meet the X appointment, we test-drove our alternative vehicles. I'm sure these will not be considered alternatives to the X to many of you, as 1) they're not all-electric and 2) they don't match the X in performance. But our goals here are 1) safety, 2) fuel efficiency not being terrible, and 3) interior comfort/functionality. We're not attracted to Tesla for their ludicrous driving performance (though I'm not complaining!), but for the all-electric vision and safety.

First up was the Toyota Highlander Hybrid. We've been a Toyota household since 2005 (three vehicles, zero repair bills outside of warranty), and the Highlander is comfortable, reliable, and efficient compared to anything in the class other than the X. In a word, the Highlander is... fine. It's a good vehicle. Doesn't inspire much emotion, though. The third row is OK--useable, but just OK. It's a 6-seater with plenty of creature comforts. The interior storage is great--cupholders, giant console storage, shelf on the dash replete with pass-through for device charging, all seats fold flat. It's just a 'regular' hybrid, getting around 27 MPG. Safety ratings are good, but not perfect. Cost is sub-$50k loaded. Far and away the cost-efficient choice.

Next was the Volvo XC90 T8 PHEV. The XC90 has been racking up awards like it's Tesla in 2013, and the T8 adds a 9 kWh battery for about 17 miles real-world range. That's nothing compared to the Tesla, but aside from the X it's class-leading for a 7-seater SUV. We quite liked the XC90. The interior is extremely well-done. Volvo's seats are class-leading (yes, better than Tesla's), the Sensus infotainment system is very intuitive and reminds me a lot of Tesla's system (smaller screen, but nearly every aspect of the car is touchscreen-controlled). Interior convenience tech is the best of the three--there's a HUD, CarPlay/Android Auto (by the time our car would arrive if we went this route), integrated data modem, etc. Rear seats are good--I'm 5' 10" and could easily sit back there for a reasonably long trip. Not quite as much interior storage as the Highlander, but a sufficient amount. Independently-adjustable seats in the middle row, plus an integrated booster seat in the middle for when the kiddos get a little bigger. All seats fold flat. Third row access is not spectacular since it's a 7-seater, but it wasn't bad. Performance is actually decent--400 combined HP and 0-60 of 5.3. Not Tesla-like, but much better than the Highlander and very good for a 7-seater. Safety ratings are excellent. Volvo is likely the only manufacturer that could rival Tesla on safety, and in fact they have a few safety features that even Tesla can't match currently. Cost after tax credits would be $63k-$66k depending on options.

Finally we met the X. The driving dynamics of the X are exactly what I expected them to be--ludicrous. There's no competition in the 7-seat SUV category that compares to the torque/smoothness of the X. Obviously there are no 7-seater alternatives that are fully electric, either. But we knew that going in. We were there more to evaluate interior utility/comfort, functionality of the crazy Model X seats, etc.

I was impressed by much of the interior refinements Tesla's made in the X--integrated center console, fantastic helicopter-like view from the front seats, actual cupholders in the back. But other areas still seem tacky--the plastic base of the driver's seat, for example. I was not a fan of the 2nd-row seats. In the 6-seat config, they don't even have armrests. The seat adjustments were not working properly on the units we saw/drove--one was a 6-seater where one of the middle seats wouldn't move but would instead make a loud grinding noise when the button was pressed. The other was a 7-seater whose middle row mostly worked but took a couple of tries. Five months after initial deliveries, this was not a reassuring sign.

Third-row seating was not great. My head was just under the rear glass, and there's no third-row seating area storage (ie for a phone/tablet, etc). The cupholders are between the two rear seats rather than on the outboard side, and seemed like they would be a bit of a pain to use on a drive with 2 people in back. I'd rate the X's third row as comparable to the Highlander's--both would work in a pinch and are certainly better than many third-row options, but the XC90 was a step above both.

All in all, my wife and I thought the X was a solid vehicle. We like it. I'd certainly prefer to be upgrading to an all-electric SUV. But the bottom line is the XC90 T8 better meets our needs at this time--safety is comparable (yes, I know some folks will disagree--I view Tesla better in some ways, eg rollover, and Volvo better in others, eg run-off road protection), both will do a lot of all-electric driving in our use cases, and the XC90 has a more functional interior. If the X and the XC90 were comparable in price, we'd have a very tough decision on our hands. Unfortunately for Tesla, the X--even after tax credits--would run us at least $25k more than the T8; maybe $20k more when fuel savings/insurance costs are taken into account. Or, as I like to think of it, 'half of a well-equipped Model 3.' We've ordered the T8, and will be reserving a Model 3 as soon as Tesla starts taking reservations.

So, two years into our Tesla reservation-holder journey, I once again get to tell myself that in about 2 years, we'll own a Tesla. I will say that this 'Meet the X' event was the first time I've ever felt sales pressure from Tesla. It was... weird. Nothing unreasonable, but it was clear that my 'copilot' really wanted me to log in and hit the order button before I left the event.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

Thanks for your story, Zaxxon. We were at the "Meet the X" event in Denver on Saturday from 2 until 4. Where you there around that time by any chance?

The X certainly looked nice but I was disappointed by the second row seats. When I put my deposit down in April 2015, it was on the assumption that the second row would fold flat. When we found out several months later that they would no longer fold flat, I still kept my reservation so that I could see how much room/storage space would be available.

We did the quick 10-15 minute test drive but it was a blur since there was so much to take in and so little time. I actually never got to sit in the rear of the test drive vehicle (the titanium metallic 7 seater)...so I have no idea what it's like with 7 seats or with the falcon wing doors closed.

Once we returned from the test drive, we did have a chance to sit in the 6 seater for a bit. The second row seats were comfortable but we noticed the same grinding noises that you mentioned and couldn't get the left one to move properly. The same seat had worked about 30 minutes earlier so I assume it was a temporary problem.

The third row seats were ok for me (5'8") if the second row seats weren't all the way back. It was nice that I could put my feet in the open space between the second row seats. With the 3rd row seats up, there wasn't any room for dogs in the back. I tried folding down one and then both third row seats. It did provide room and I could see how it would be nice to have a dog on one folded seat and a passenger on the other. I have two large dogs, with the largest being 120 pounds, so I would probably have to keep both rear seats down for them to have enough room in the back. If I were to buy one, I would probably go for the 6 seater...or maybe a 5 seater so that the dogs were contained in the rear.

The view from the front seats was nice but living in Colorado, I fear what it would cost to replace the windshield. I've gone through 3 or 4 windshields in my current car and can't imagine what it would cost to replace the windshield in the X.

The falcon wing doors were cool but we had a problem getting one of them to close in the test drive vehicle. It could've been due to someone standing nearby.

While I haven't canceled my order, I am leaning more towards buying an S. The openness of the X was nice but the "utility" was severely lacking due to the inability of the second row seats to fold. If I had 5 kids, the X might be the perfect fit...but I have two large dogs and need more cargo room than people room. If I'm going to have to keep my current vehicle in order to drive the dogs around, then that's one less reason for me to get the X instead of the S.

I had considered the XC90 previously but was disappointed by the all-electric range. If I don't end up getting the S (or X), perhaps I'll go the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV + Model 3 route instead. The Outlander should have a lot better all-electric range than the XC90. I could use that for local trips and moving the dogs around and then rely on the 3 for commuting and road trips. I do plan on getting the largest battery available as I have relatives in Nebraska where currently isn't any Supercharger coverage. I hope that will change this year.

 

[Zaxxon]

Thanks for your story, Zaxxon. We were at the "Meet the X" event in Denver on Saturday from 2 until 4. Where you there around that time by any chance?

We were there from about 1:15 to 2. I was the one with two spawn in tow:

The X certainly looked nice but I was disappointed by the second row seats. When I put my deposit down in April 2015, it was on the assumption that the second row would fold flat. When we found out several months later that they would no longer fold flat, I still kept my reservation so that I could see how much room/storage space would be available.

I am disappointed in them, as well. They are cool, and admittedly the majority of the time I don't need the seats to fold flat. But when I need it, I need it.

We did the quick 10-15 minute test drive but it was a blur since there was so much to take in and so little time. I actually never got to sit in the rear of the test drive vehicle (the titanium metallic 7 seater)...so I have no idea what it's like with 7 seats or with the falcon wing doors closed.

With the doors closed, the 2nd row was fine, although the middle seat head room is less due to the falcon wing mechanism. I'm 5' 10" and my head was maybe 0.1" from the ceiling. The outboard seats were fine. The rear with 7 seats was... not good.

It was nice that I could put my feet in the open space between the second row seats. With the 3rd row seats up, there wasn't any room for dogs in the back. I tried folding down one and then both third row seats. It did provide room and I could see how it would be nice to have a dog on one folded seat and a passenger on the other... If I were to buy one, I would probably go for the 6 seater...or maybe a 5 seater so that the dogs were contained in the rear.

I would agree with the 6-seater choice. It's the clear winner in this vehicle, I think. The 7-seater is just too claustrophobic, with too little leg room. Having the open space in row 2 is vital, IMO.

The view from the front seats was nice but living in Colorado, I fear what it would cost to replace the windshield. I've gone through 3 or 4 windshields in my current car and can't imagine what it would cost to replace the windshield in the X.

Yep.

The falcon wing doors were cool but we had a problem getting one of them to close in the test drive vehicle. It could've been due to someone standing nearby.

Interesting. I meant to mention that I saw no falcon wing issues while I was there.

While I haven't canceled my order, I am leaning more towards buying an S. The openness of the X was nice but the "utility" was severely lacking due to the inability of the second row seats to fold. If I had 5 kids, the X might be the perfect fit...but I have two large dogs and need more cargo room than people room. If I'm going to have to keep my current vehicle in order to drive the dogs around, then that's one less reason for me to get the X instead of the S.

If we don't like the 3 reveal, a CPO S may be in our future...

I had considered the XC90 previously but was disappointed by the all-electric range. If I don't end up getting the S (or X), perhaps I'll go the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV + Model 3 route instead. The Outlander should have a lot better all-electric range than the XC90. I could use that for local trips and moving the dogs around and then rely on the 3 for commuting and road trips. I do plan on getting the largest battery available as I have relatives in Nebraska where currently isn't any Supercharger coverage. I hope that will change this year.

To be clear, I'd much rather have a 20 kWh battery in the XC90, and would gladly pay for the incremental cost. I think Volvo is just up against the laws of physics here--when you need to fit an ICE and a gas tank, and you don't want to give up passenger room, you've only got so much space to use.

Is there a solid US release date for the Outlander PHEV yet? Every time I check, they've pulled an Audi and have nothing to show. I wouldn't get your hopes too high for 'a lot better all-electric range' than the XC90, either. The Outlander will have a 12 kWh pack, vs 9.2 in the XC90. Granted, the Outlander is also lighter. I'm sure it'll get more than the real-world 17 of the XC90, but it's not going to top 30 in real-world use. And the Outlander's performance is pretty terrible from what I've read. Also, you can only get 5 seats in the PHEV.

 

[Oloron]

Thanks Zaxxon for your review. I was struck by how similar our situations are, though we ended up making an order for the X after the "Meet". Given that others might also be in a similar situation, I figured I'd note why we ended up making the decision to order the X. (In case it's not clear, I'm not in any way trying to change your decision or not say that you made the wrong one.)

Our criteria were very similar to yours. We wanted electric/hybrid, AWD, safety, seats 6 comfortably, and decent cargo space. Performance wasn't really a factor for us. We ended up ordering a X 70D. I would agree with your comments overall, but we ended up in a different place for the following reasons:
- The vast majority of the use for us will be "soccer mom" sorts of trips. 99% of the trips will be under 30 miles and many under 10. The range for the 70D was totally fine. We figured the literally once or twice a year we might need an extra supercharger stop vs. a 90D wasn't worth the added cost.
- My wife doesn't like leather seats, so the baseline interior was preferable to the leather for us. We added Autopilot and the cold weather package, but that's all. Between selecting a 70D and relatively few options, the cost comes to $80k after rebates. We also have solar on the house with excess capacity, so "fuel" is basically free for us. Based on some total cost of ownership calculations over an 8 year period, the cost worked out to be roughly equivalent to a $55k or so ICE vehicle, depending on assumptions.
- The Volvo is very nice and was one of the cars we looked at. In our situation, the X should actually be a little cheaper over the long term, which made that decision easy in favor of the Model X. The overall cost was closer for the Highlander, but we really didn't like the interior layout of it and the X interior actually works better for the sorts of cargo we're likely to use.
- We looked at what our options would be if we stepped away from the need to seat more than 5 and likely would have gone with a Subaru Outback. We would lose some seating capacity and be back at an ICE vehicle, but at an effective $20-$25k cost difference. In the end, we figured full electric + additional seating + cool factor was worth the additional money. (Though that decision was far from easy - the Tesla is still feels like a crazy amount of money to spend on a car.)

 

[MorrisonHiker]

We were there from about 1:15 to 2. I was the one with two spawn in tow:

I don't recognize your kids so we must've just missed you. We pulled in right about 2 pm.

Interesting. I meant to mention that I saw no falcon wing issues while I was there.

I was in the driver's seat so I didn't see what was happening. My friend was seated in the second row behind me and couldn't get the door to close. He finally asked them if he was doing it right and they said he was doing it correctly but mentioned that maybe they had been standing in the way, preventing it from closing.

To be clear, I'd much rather have a 20 kWh battery in the XC90, and would gladly pay for the incremental cost. I think Volvo is just up against the laws of physics here--when you need to fit an ICE and a gas tank, and you don't want to give up passenger room, you've only got so much space to use.

Yeah, I waited for the XC90 for over a year and was looking forward to the overseas delivery program. I bailed on it back in April 2015 when they announced the EV range and Tesla announced the S 70D at almost the same price. While they are totally different cars, it got me looking more seriously at Tesla so I decided to go for the X and placed a deposit.

Is there a solid US release date for the Outlander PHEV yet? Every time I check, they've pulled an Audi and have nothing to show. I wouldn't get your hopes too high for 'a lot better all-electric range' than the XC90, either. The Outlander will have a 12 kWh pack, vs 9.2 in the XC90. Granted, the Outlander is also lighter. I'm sure it'll get more than the real-world 17 of the XC90, but it's not going to top 30 in real-world use. And the Outlander's performance is pretty terrible from what I've read. Also, you can only get 5 seats in the PHEV.

I haven't heard anything new about the Outlander recently. I followed it for years but it still never made it to the US. I know it's not at the same level as Volvo and Tesla but really, all I want is a vehicle with AWD that I can plug in and do some or all of my miles via electricity. The Outlander will probably get 25+ miles which would be enough for my current commute. I don't need more than 5 seats so it would be big enough for me. I really don't like the looks of it but I could probably get an Outlander PHEV and a Model 3 (eventually) for less than the price of an X. I was trying to get one vehicle which would handle all of my needs but if I can't, there's room in the garage for both the Outlander and the 3.

 

[Zaxxon]

Awesome, Oloron. No worries about coming off like you're questioning my decision--you're not. And I'm glad the X will work well for you. I agree that were we not as concerned with range, the overall cost comparison would have been much closer. In any event, I certainly am stoked for the Model 3 unveil at the end of the month.

Incidentally, we've also got solar, though the layout of our roof made it impossible to fully cover our usage. We've got the rest of our usage sourced through Xcel's WindSource program.

 

[larmor]

Any news on MX safety testing?

Awesome, Oloron. No worries about coming off like you're questioning my decision--you're not. And I'm glad the X will work well for you. I agree that were we not as concerned with range, the overall cost comparison would have been much closer. In any event, I certainly am stoked for the Model 3 unveil at the end of the month.

Incidentally, we've also got solar, though the layout of our roof made it impossible to fully cover our usage. We've got the rest of our usage sourced through Xcel's WindSource program.

 

[mikevbf]

We 'met the X' in Denver this past Saturday. Overall I was impressed with the car--certainly not 'meh' from my perspective. Unfortunately we're going to cancel our reservation and will put off our move to full electric for a couple more years (Model 3 reservation list, here we come...). I'll try to detail our reasoning here. Please, don't send the vultures to descend upon me. Apologies for the length of the post... I wanted to try to fully explain our thought process.

Some background: we've been waiting to upgrade from a 2 Prius household to add a 6- or 7-seat vehicle suitable for road-tripping our family of 4 as well as allowing us to deal with having guests in town w/o having to take 2 vehicles. We've been waiting for a while. Our X deposit went down in Feb of 2014, and at that time we planned to have the X or whatever alternative we settled on by late 2015. When the X kept getting delayed, we kept on waiting, wanting to drive the X before making a decision one way or the other. We wanted to go full electric, but knew that that may not be realistic for us as the X is the only game in town. If we didn't like it / couldn't afford the ultimate pricing, we'd have to settle for a hybrid or PHEV.

After the X 'launched' and pricing came out, we knew what we would be dealing with if we wanted the X: at least $98,500 for a 'base' X with the 90 kWh battery and 6 seats--no other options. That is steep for us. Certainly doable, but the vehicle would have to be head-and-shoulders better than the competition for our purposes. And ideally we wouldn't want a hobbled X--we'd like Autopilot, leather seating, a color other than white/black, and the accessory hitch--now we're at $104k. After tax credits here in the Rockies, it'd be about $91k. I'm aware we could get a 70 kWh battery, but we don't want to deal with road-trip hassles and aren't sure that 220 rated miles would be enough, especially on trips off the Supercharger path or five years from now with some degradation in place.

In the time leading up to our Meet the X appointment, we test-drove our alternative vehicles. I'm sure these will not be considered alternatives to the X to many of you, as 1) they're not all-electric and 2) they don't match the X in performance. But our goals here are 1) safety, 2) fuel efficiency not being terrible, and 3) interior comfort/functionality. We're not attracted to Tesla for their ludicrous driving performance (though I'm not complaining!), but for the all-electric vision and safety.

First up was the Toyota Highlander Hybrid. We've been a Toyota household since 2005 (three vehicles, zero repair bills outside of warranty), and the Highlander is comfortable, reliable, and efficient compared to anything in the class other than the X. In a word, the Highlander is... fine. It's a good vehicle. Doesn't inspire much emotion, though. The third row is OK--useable, but just OK. It's a 6-seater with plenty of creature comforts. The interior storage is great--cupholders, giant console storage, shelf on the dash replete with pass-through for device charging, all seats fold flat. It's just a 'regular' hybrid, getting around 27 MPG. Safety ratings are good, but not perfect. Cost is sub-$50k loaded. Far and away the cost-efficient choice.

Next was the Volvo XC90 T8 PHEV. The XC90 has been racking up awards like it's Tesla in 2013, and the T8 adds a 9 kWh battery for about 17 miles real-world range. That's nothing compared to the Tesla, but aside from the X it's class-leading for a 7-seater SUV. We quite liked the XC90. The interior is extremely well-done. Volvo's seats are class-leading (yes, better than Tesla's), the Sensus infotainment system is very intuitive and reminds me a lot of Tesla's system (smaller screen, but nearly every aspect of the car is touchscreen-controlled). Interior convenience tech is the best of the three--there's a HUD, CarPlay/Android Auto (by the time our car would arrive if we went this route), integrated data modem, etc. Rear seats are good--I'm 5' 10" and could easily sit back there for a reasonably long trip. Not quite as much interior storage as the Highlander, but a sufficient amount. Independently-adjustable seats in the middle row, plus an integrated booster seat in the middle for when the kiddos get a little bigger. All seats fold flat. Third row access is not spectacular since it's a 7-seater, but it wasn't bad. Performance is actually decent--400 combined HP and 0-60 of 5.3. Not Tesla-like, but much better than the Highlander and very good for a 7-seater. Safety ratings are excellent. Volvo is likely the only manufacturer that could rival Tesla on safety, and in fact they have a few safety features that even Tesla can't match currently. Cost after tax credits would be $63k-$66k depending on options.

Finally we met the X. The driving dynamics of the X are exactly what I expected them to be--ludicrous. There's no competition in the 7-seat SUV category that compares to the torque/smoothness of the X. Obviously there are no 7-seater alternatives that are fully electric, either. But we knew that going in. We were there more to evaluate interior utility/comfort, functionality of the crazy Model X seats, etc.

I was impressed by much of the interior refinements Tesla's made in the X--integrated center console, fantastic helicopter-like view from the front seats, actual cupholders in the back. But other areas still seem tacky--the plastic base of the driver's seat, for example. I was not a fan of the 2nd-row seats. In the 6-seat config, they don't even have armrests. The seat adjustments were not working properly on the units we saw/drove--one was a 6-seater where one of the middle seats wouldn't move but would instead make a loud grinding noise when the button was pressed. The other was a 7-seater whose middle row mostly worked but took a couple of tries. Five months after initial deliveries, this was not a reassuring sign.

Third-row seating was not great. My head was just under the rear glass, and there's no third-row seating area storage (ie for a phone/tablet, etc). The cupholders are between the two rear seats rather than on the outboard side, and seemed like they would be a bit of a pain to use on a drive with 2 people in back. I'd rate the X's third row as comparable to the Highlander's--both would work in a pinch and are certainly better than many third-row options, but the XC90 was a step above both.

All in all, my wife and I thought the X was a solid vehicle. We like it. I'd certainly prefer to be upgrading to an all-electric SUV. But the bottom line is the XC90 T8 better meets our needs at this time--safety is comparable (yes, I know some folks will disagree--I view Tesla better in some ways, eg rollover, and Volvo better in others, eg run-off road protection), both will do a lot of all-electric driving in our use cases, and the XC90 has a more functional interior. If the X and the XC90 were comparable in price, we'd have a very tough decision on our hands. Unfortunately for Tesla, the X--even after tax credits--would run us at least $25k more than the T8; maybe $20k more when fuel savings/insurance costs are taken into account. Or, as I like to think of it, 'half of a well-equipped Model 3.' We've ordered the T8, and will be reserving a Model 3 as soon as Tesla starts taking reservations.

So, two years into our Tesla reservation-holder journey, I once again get to tell myself that in about 2 years, we'll own a Tesla. I will say that this 'Meet the X' event was the first time I've ever felt sales pressure from Tesla. It was... weird. Nothing unreasonable, but it was clear that my 'copilot' really wanted me to log in and hit the order button before I left the event.

I thought about the Volvo as well but ruled against it because of the small battery not giving enough all electric range and doubts about how efficient hybrid mode would be in real use. I like the upcoming Pacifica with a 16 kWh pack better because it was designed to be driven in all electric with supposedly 30 miles of range before depending on its ice. On the down side it will not have as much clearance as the Volvo or an AWD option which would probably be useful in Colorado, but still seems like a reasonable upgrade to a Prius. The other downside is its not available until the second half of this year. Here, check it out:
2017 Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid: More Details On 30-Mile Plug-In

 

[Zaxxon]

Any news on MX safety testing?

I think all that's been 'released' was the talk at the 'launch', but I am pretty sure the X will be top marks all around.

Mike: thanks. We're pretty set on the XC90 for now, and will focus our full EV efforts on our 2nd vehicle--hopefully a Model 3 when it's available.

 

[Computerwise]

After waiting 2 + years for the Model X I too am very disappointed after my Model X test ride. Bought a BMW X5 new in 2015 (which I still like) as I needed a new car and have a 17 year old new driver who needed my old car..POsitives-- all electric, handling excellent, love the touchscreen controls, like the everything in the 1st row, like the look of the car from the back. Negatives: 2nd row of seats in 6 person config are too close to the doors and should be adjustable towards the center, NO ARMRESTS, don't fold down flat, don't like the backs of the seats all plastic and shiny. Don't like the 3rd row either or 7 seat config. Don't like the front styling of the car. Thought the frunk would be much larger. Just so disappointed after waiting all this time. Wish Tesla would work with BMW and do the electric car design, Super charger build out, battery manufacture and let BMW do the rest with designing the car, interior and finish. May go with the Model S, which is such a beautiful car but wanted an SUV...

 

[Blastphemy]

I would have been happy if Tesla had just taken a loaded Infiniti QX60 and replaced the gas engine with the electric drive & battery. That's all I ever wanted. Oh, well. I shall compromise for now...

 

[anticitizen13.7]

Negatives: 2nd row of seats in 6 person config are too close to the doors and should be adjustable towards the center, NO ARMRESTS, don't fold down flat, don't like the backs of the seats all plastic and shiny.

This is probably my biggest criticism of the Model X. As a Honda driver, I really appreciate the small touches and thoughtful interior conveniences, and this is an area where Tesla has been pretty deficient. Model X is definitely a big step up from Model S, but some of the design choices (like the shiny seat backs, which will get scuffed and scratched to hell by anyone who has kids and pets) make me ask: "what the hell were they thinking?!"

The flip side of this is that Tesla tends to iterate pretty quickly based on customer feedback. I expect that the seats will undergo revisions in the near future.

 

[Electroman]

What is the wisdom of not having arm rests?

The same 'I know what is good for you' mindset that got us no map pockets or no coat hangers in the S.

 

[Vitold]

What is the wisdom of not having arm rests?

The same 'I know what is good for you' mindset that got us no map pockets or no coat hangers in the S.

Rumor has it that they decided on 6 seat configuration days before October reveal by removing middle seat (first copies did not even have carpets cut for 6 seat configuration). Presumably, if they added armrests, Tesla would have to go through extra safety tests therefore it's not an easy thing to add.

Overall 6 seat version appears to be a hit, even w/o the arm rests.

 

[vandacca]

Rumor has it that they decided on 6 seat configuration days before October reveal by removing middle seat (first copies did not even have carpets cut for 6 seat configuration). Presumably, if they added armrests, Tesla would have to go through extra safety tests therefore it's not an easy thing to add.

Overall 6 seat version appears to be a hit, even w/o the arm rests.

I agree. It feels like a bit of a hack, not something that Tesla normally does. I think it was their only option to quickly appease the uproar due to lack of folding 2nd row seats.

I feel that if Tesla had planned a 6 seat version from the beginning, they would have included arm rests, positioned the seats closer together (so that you weren't so close to the falcon doors), and had a center console ready from the start.

However, I don't believe that arm rests would affect safety testing and the reason for not having them is because they prefer to re-design a good solution rather than to continue the hack. This 6-seat option is a temporary solution in my opinion. If Tesla wants to keep a 6-seat version, I feel that they will have a completely different solution a year from now.

 

[thx1139]

so...finally saw the X at the Tesla event. No test drives. Just see and touch. Pretty lame actually. I expected a slightly bigger thing from Tesla. Now...about the car. I think I've been reading too much of this forum. I think it somehow messed up my mindset on the car. I gotta be honest...i was not blown away. It seems a lot of the comments on here are pretty accurate. Small trunk if the third row is up. Second row seats seem WAY too over-engineered. One of the two cars had one of the seats barely functioning in the second row. Not a great sign. I was a bit annoyed that they didn't have a 7 seater there...kind of defeated the whole purpose of the event for me. Feels like a car that will be in the shop often the first 6 months. I wouldn't be surprised if the second row was completely changed in the next year. Now, some positives. i heard that it drives way better than the model S. i wouldn't know yet as they weren't offering. Driver's seat is super comfy. white seats feel and look goofy to me after the initial bright shock wears off. My biggest take from the event is that the p90d is not an escalade or suburban or pickup truck. it is in the acura mdx category on super steroids. its meant for 4/5 people and 6-7 in a pinch. its not meant to carry sheet rock or any other crazy thing. its 150k! I still can't decide if the 7 seater was the right choice. either way its too late to change. i think with 3 kids, its the only choice as most of the time, it would be a lot more practical to actually have the third row down and have everyone sit in the second row. not sure the third row is meant for daily sitting like our minivan. I pick mine up next week (almost officially. waiting for a few parts to cali). Too late to change my mind at this point, so it should be interesting. sorry for the babbling...

Ok so seems like you described every single SUV out there. I have never been a fan of SUVs because even the largest are larger on the outside then on the inside. For utilitarian purposes with kids no SUV ever competed with a mini-van. As for sheet rock or plywood. All of the major home improvement stores offer trucks for hourly rent for $20-$25 per hour or two. Thus my family of 5 largest vehicle is our Model S. As a SUV/CUV I love the Model X, but dont want one because I dont want any SUV/CUV. If we occasionally need something large to haul something we visit Home Depot and rent a truck.