Model 3 not recommended and also highest owner satisfaction from Consumer Reports

[sperkin]

Both of my Model 3s have been in service centers for over 40+ days each. One of them is going back soon.

There are issues with the car that you don't get with a $20kish Toyota or Honda. These issues were all consistent with other owners so it's an epidemic for Tesla that's losing money and resource in repairs. Most has been fixed at factory or software now.

However, I still think this is the best car under $150k. Tesla service is amazing. Great crew and great loaner cars.

 

[thx1139]

What bothers me about this is what is deemed an issue with reliability. I have had many cars and what I see them claiming as reliability issues doesnt seem to be reliability at all. Fit and finish is not reliability. Audio system is not reliability. Even the display rebooting isnt reliability. Reliability to me is the car wont take you from point A to point B safely.

Our S and our 3 have been the most reliable cars we have ever had and then I would say it was our 2 Volts. I think this is because they are electric. I would say electric cars are simply more reliable. The Mercedes we had, the BMW we had, the Lexus we had all were less reliable. All called for service more often. All cost a great deal to service. Our 85D is at 97K miles and only maintenance was new tires at 75K. Still drives like new.

Our least reliable car was a Mercedes. It also was the most luxurious, had the most dials and knobs and I swear every six months or so a sensor would go off that simply said take in for service. Turns out that a common issue was over or under tightening the gas cap. This cause the service light to go on. Now that isnt the only reason the car wasnt reliable. It actually just stopped working on the road twice. One time service even got the car back to us right before we left on a driving vacation. I ran to the store before we left and came home packed up the car and it wouldnt go. We rapidly packed lighter and took our Camry Hybrid. Wasnt as comfortable ride from Chicago to Florida, but we got there.

 

[Silicon Desert]

We really love our Tesla, one of the top 3 or 4 cars I've ever owned. However, when talking to people about it, after totally gushing about how great the car is, I always add that it's not very reliable at all.

Wife says it sounds like you never owned a Buick. Her Buick literally stopped running within a mile of driving it off the new car lot, and nothing put troubles after that. The most reliable car I ever owned was an Acura, yet the Tesla isn't far being that. Two years on the X with a bunch of miles and no issues yet.

 

[StellarRat]

Their vastly better customer service and legendary interior quality and drive feel could make their EV the best option yet. The next five years should be really exciting for EVs. And Tesla will be forced to improve or suffer the same fate as Apple in the 90s and remain a barely sustainable niche company with a very small market share of loyal followers that don't mind being treated like expendable garbage.

Then there's the vastly inferior reliably and vastly expensive repair costs. My brothers girlfriend has a BMW that's constantly in the shop for very expensive repairs. The last one was $2500 for a new oil pan gasket. The one before that, it decided it didn't want to use two cylinders, I think that one was $4000. All in the space of a year. Are you kidding me? I hear this same story from other BMW owners. My family has some experience with VW as well. They're great to start with, but they rapidly turn into shop sitters while Hondas and Toyotas just keep going and going. My 1999 Prelude was NEVER in the shop for a breakdown. Not once in the five years I owned it and not once in the following five years my brother drove it. The only service it ever had was oil/lube changes, three sets of tires, some new belts, and a couple new batteries.

The Germans can't touch the Japanese in terms of quality for price. If Honda or Toyota actually had the same EV technical level and desire to build EV's as Tesla they'd slaughter Tesla and the Germans. Fortunately for Tesla they don't seem to "get" EVs.

 

[Silicon Desert]

My neighbor says her Model 3 husband is also the most unreliable. His body is falling apart. He consumes too much energy while idle (phantom drain), runs into things (bad auto-pilot), farts more than a Tesla fart app, keeps forgetting things (reboot that display), etc, etc. Coincidence ?

Joking aside, the wife and I didn't like the 3 after test driving it, yet I understand it is a person thing. Some people don't like our model X

 

[caskater47]

What bothers me about this is what is deemed an issue with reliability. I have had many cars and what I see them claiming as reliability issues doesnt seem to be reliability at all. Fit and finish is not reliability. Audio system is not reliability. Even the display rebooting isnt reliability. Reliability to me is the car wont take you from point A to point B safely.

Our S and our 3 have been the most reliable cars we have ever had and then I would say it was our 2 Volts. I think this is because they are electric. I would say electric cars are simply more reliable. The Mercedes we had, the BMW we had, the Lexus we had all were less reliable. All called for service more often. All cost a great deal to service. Our 85D is at 97K miles and only maintenance was new tires at 75K. Still drives like new.

Our least reliable car was a Mercedes. It also was the most luxurious, had the most dials and knobs and I swear every six months or so a sensor would go off that simply said take in for service. Turns out that a common issue was over or under tightening the gas cap. This cause the service light to go on. Now that isnt the only reason the car wasnt reliable. It actually just stopped working on the road twice. One time service even got the car back to us right before we left on a driving vacation. I ran to the store before we left and came home packed up the car and it wouldnt go. We rapidly packed lighter and took our Camry Hybrid. Wasnt as comfortable ride from Chicago to Florida, but we got there.

In order for a discussion about reliability to be meaningful you have to include anything that provides a function even if it's not crucial to getting you from A to B. Otherwise you get into unhelpful discussions like automatic transmission reliability vs manual.

Also what's to say an audio system isn't important if unreliable? In CA it's illegal to drive and use a phone at the same time without a hands free device. So if the audio system malfunctions then it can cause a legitimate danger to the driver and others.

In my car I've had issues with my phone not being detected and then the key card not working. Sure the key isn't what gets me from A to B but if I'm unable to get the car into drive mode I consider that a major reliability issue. I've now encountered this problem a few times and it always seems to happen when it's really cold and/or rainy outside.

The point being reliability has to be a wholistic metric or else you can't adequately compare one car to another.

 

[dfwatt]

Maybe this will get tesla to clean up their act. If they don't other auto makers could easily destroy them. The other issue is parts availability, right now if you want something fixed out of warranty you HAVE to have tesla do it, or scavenge parts off ebay... Something like a simple broken clip could be an unreasonably expensive service visit.

While I love the car, it a bit of a rattle box for close to 80k... Starting to question my sanity of paying so much for something that rattles more than an econo box.

Bummer. We have zero rattles even over nasty pavement.

 

[dfwatt]

@"voip-ninja, post: 3414755, member: 9361 "I think the Tesla cult suffered a fatal wound with the introduction of the Model 3 and with the MR the cult is now on its deathbed.

"SR comes along and sells a million units and you won't see too much cultish fawning over it, it's going to get just as much flak as other automakers get when they put out shoddy work."

While the transition from boutique to mainstream product MAY reduce the percentage of buyers that have 'cult-like' fawning over Tesla, I am not sure that's true around the Model 3, simply because of the percentage of people who indicate, in apparent gross contradiction to CR's reliability data, that they wouldn't hesitate to buy another. I think the superiority of EV tech, totally ASIDE from the ecological issues, may 'convert' a lot of first time buyers - the Model 3 is a revelation in so many ways, reliability aside. It certainly has converted us, even, very surprisingly, my technophobic wife. Long story short, a lot of Model 3 owners will still be Tesla converts. But they do need to get their QC act together, and there is every evidence that they agree, and are moving in that direction. Not fast enough to please everyone, for sure.

 

[caskater47]

Then there's the vastly inferior reliably and vastly expensive repair costs. My brothers girlfriend has a BMW that's constantly in the shop for very expensive repairs. The last one was $2500 for a new oil pan gasket. The one before that, it decided it didn't want to use two cylinders, I think that one was $4000. All in the space of a year. Are you kidding me? I hear this same story from other BMW owners. My family has some experience with VW as well. They're great to start with, but they rapidly turn into shop sitters while Hondas and Toyotas just keep going and going. My 1999 Prelude was NEVER in the shop for a breakdown. Not once in the five years I owned it and not once in the following five years my brother drove it. The only service it ever had was oil/lube changes, three sets of tires, some new belts, and a couple new batteries.

The Germans can't touch the Japanese in terms of quality for price. If Honda or Toyota actually had the same EV technical level and desire to build EV's as Tesla they'd slaughter Tesla and the Germans. Fortunately for Tesla they don't seem to "get" EVs.

If you read my prior post you'd see I mentioned BMW is garbage. I won't argue you on that point at all.

Japanese cars have excellent mechanical reliability and maintenance costs. I agree there too. However their cars are otherwise garbage. The seats are squishy like bean bags, the drive feel is like a go kart, the interior wildly ranges from basic utilitarian to incomprehensible and the other price/performance ratio is some of the worst in the industry.

My first two cars were both Toyota and they were fine cars. They got me from A to B but were nothing special. If the Japanese ever do decide to start building EVs they will continue to have one major problem attracting a customer like me. Their cars will still be boring and uncomfortable.

 

[Big Dog]

Even Consumer Reports relies on anecdotal accounts.

CR surveys their own customer base, but I gotta wonder how representative a sample that is.....

 

[StellarRat]

If you read my prior post you'd see I mentioned BMW is garbage. I won't argue you on that point at all.

Japanese cars have excellent mechanical reliability and maintenance costs. I agree there too. However their cars are otherwise garbage. The seats are squishy like bean bags, the drive feel is like a go kart, the interior wildly ranges from basic utilitarian to incomprehensible and the other price/performance ratio is some of the worst in the industry.

My first two cars were both Toyota and they were fine cars. They got me from A to B but were nothing special. If the Japanese ever do decide to start building EVs they will continue to have one major problem attracting a customer like me. Their cars will still be boring and uncomfortable.

You don't even like the high end Japanese cars, like Acura and Lexus? Because that's the price range the Tesla is in right now.

 

[caskater47]

You don't even like the high end Japanese cars, like Acura and Lexus? Because that's the price range the Tesla is in right now.

My wife has an Acura MDX. It drives well, especially the SHAWD but the interior is incomprehensible. The nav system is so diffuclt to use that I find it much easier to pull up Google Maps on my phone than deal with the annoying interface. The UI for accessing lots of interior features is equally difficult and annoying. So no it's not my favorite.

Lexus... don't even get me started on Lexus. They are the least exciting luxury brand in existence and I find their seats to be very uncomfortable. The last Lexus I drove felt like driving a Corolla only it cost 4x the price without any noticeable improvements.

 

[SO16]

This is just silly. It's always possible to find horror stories for any brand.

You have to look at the overall. Porsche consistently ranks on top.

Porsche has the most satisfied customers

BMW is another story. While they have generally high ratings my experience with them and my friends' have been terrible. But not in terms of customer service. Their CS was fine. It's the cars that are unreliable p.o.s. That's not what I'm discussing about Tesla though. Tesla quality appears to be fine so far. But their CS is non existant and that will eventually kill them. People are always willing to put up with a bad product as long as you take care of them. That's why BMW is so popular.

Now Audi is easily the best car I've ever owned. Amazing build quality and they always took great care of me. I would buy another in a heartbeat.

Of course it’s silly. As you pointed out, you can always find horror stories. You have to admit that everything Tesla related is amplified a thousand fold. There are probably some areas where it’s true and others, not so much.

And yes one needs to look at the overall picture. Like which vehicle has highest satisfaction, safety, convenience, maintenance, charging network, performance, types of issues, etc.

BTW, Tesla now outranks Porsche for the most satisfied customers. The article you sited is a couple years old.

Tesla owners are more satisfied than any other auto brand's, according to Consumer Reports (TSLA)

Have fun with your Audi.

 

[caskater47]

Of course it’s silly. As you pointed out, you can always find horror stories. You have to admit that everything Tesla related is amplified a thousand fold. There are probably some areas where it’s true and others, not so much.

And yes one needs to look at the overall picture. Like which vehicle has highest satisfaction, safety, convenience, maintenance, charging network, performance, types of issues, etc.

BTW, Tesla outranks Porsche for the most satisfied customers.

Have fun with your Audi.

Don't get me wrong I was extremely excited to get my Tesla and I do very much enjoy the car itself. While I've had a couple minor issues its been good overall. However that still doesn't make up for my utterly poor experience as a customer. It's for this reason that I simply can't recommend the car to most people and I probably won't buy another. If I knew what I know now I wouldn't have bought the car. It's as simple as that.

But if I absolutely needed to buy a new car right this moment I can't think of a better value than the Model 3. Having the best product and the worst experience is I think the last place a company wants to be in. It doesn't make for a good long term business strategy. But then who knows... it worked for Apple so maybe it'll work for Tesla too.

 

[voip-ninja]

@"voip-ninja, post: 3414755, member: 9361 "I think the Tesla cult suffered a fatal wound with the introduction of the Model 3 and with the MR the cult is now on its deathbed.

"SR comes along and sells a million units and you won't see too much cultish fawning over it, it's going to get just as much flak as other automakers get when they put out shoddy work."

While the transition from boutique to mainstream product MAY reduce the percentage of buyers that have 'cult-like' fawning over Tesla, I am not sure that's true around the Model 3, simply because of the percentage of people who indicate, in apparent gross contradiction to CR's reliability data, that they wouldn't hesitate to buy another. I think the superiority of EV tech, totally ASIDE from the ecological issues, may 'convert' a lot of first time buyers - the Model 3 is a revelation in so many ways, reliability aside. It certainly has converted us, even, very surprisingly, my technophobic wife. Long story short, a lot of Model 3 owners will still be Tesla converts. But they do need to get their QC act together, and there is every evidence that they agree, and are moving in that direction. Not fast enough to please everyone, for sure.

Saying the car again because it drives well and appears at first blush to be very economical is a far cry from fawning over it. Anyone who has asked me how I like the car has had me report that I like the car, but I don't love it for a number of reasons with Tesla lackluster service being chief among them. So I recommend the car but I don't fawn over it and I'm not part of the Tesla cult.

 

[StellarRat]

My wife has an Acura MDX. It drives well, especially the SHAWD but the interior is incomprehensible. The nav system is so diffuclt to use that I find it much easier to pull up Google Maps on my phone than deal with the annoying interface. The UI for accessing lots of interior features is equally difficult and annoying. So no it's not my favorite.

Lexus... don't even get me started on Lexus. They are the least exciting luxury brand in existence and I find their seats to be very uncomfortable. The last Lexus I drove felt like driving a Corolla only it cost 4x the price without any noticeable improvements.

Fair enough then. I kind of like Acura, but I'm spoiled by the simple interface in the M3. The Acura has a billion buttons and dials as you said at least the one I rode in many times (had the "electronics package".) It also used so much battery to run everything that you couldn't even sit through a drive in movie without killing the battery unless the car was running (they don't like that.)

 

[rhumbliner]

For instance if I didn't live in place that rarely has truly cold weather I would be less likely to recommend a Mod 3 as even during moderate winter day (around freezing) I see a dramatic decrease in range and lots of other winter issues present itself.

-20°F is not unusual for me here in Jackson and, yes, I do see a reduction of range in super cold weather, but not so much that it affects my driving habits. I set the daily charge level a bit higher (60% in summer, 70% in winter) but that’s about the only concession I make.

When folks here ask about Tesla I tell them it’s something to keep in mind, but really, it’s not a big deal.

 

[dhrivnak]

CR surveys their own customer base, but I gotta wonder how representative a sample that is.....

As a consumer report subscriber and survey taker I am not surprised. I love both of my Tesla’s BUT my Roadster had two issues that left me stranded and a third issue on the charge port lights. My Model 3 has had two issues resolved by Ranger visits. Not awful for about 70,000 miles of driving. But my 2004 Chevy Avalanche, now in my son’s care with over 160,000 miles has had ONE issue. Bad U joint fixed for $60. My 2015 Volt with 72,000 miles had a lose ceiling tile and the heater pump replaced under warranty. So from my view Tesla has a good way to go to be as reliable as GM.

 

[MXWing]

I'm not part of the Tesla cult.

I don't consider myself a Tesla cultist either as I call BS on Elon/Tesla when I see it. However, I would feel pretty bad if I was excommunicated from Elon's church, my Tesla's were taken away from me, and I was stuck driving only drive cars from BMW/VAG and watch others enjoy their Model Y, Pickups and whatever else is up Tesla's sleeve.

It's not a lie, not hubris, and not swinging off Elon's nuts when I say Tesla has NO COMPETITION.

I don't know if its currently true, but I read something like 90% of Tesla owners will buy only Tesla's going forward.

If Model 3 owners feel the same way, that's MAINSTREAM thinking.

The ones holding on to ICE are the cultists, not the Teslarians.

 

[Brentt]

27,000 plus miles with zero problems. Beats the 84 Camaro I special ordered that never went more than 2500 miles without playing dead!